- Pavel Dobry (Kerio)
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Messages: 3487-
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Karma: 63
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nhoague wrote on Thu, 13 September 2012 23:45Another weird discovery: When moving emails from the Trash in Apple Mail to the Inbox moves messages back, however when deleting from Apple Mail, they stay in the iPhone. Logging into webmail, these emails all are in the INBOX but with a line through them (purged). However, the iPhone reads these as being in the INBOX.
Could the iPhone be seeing "ghost" emails somewhere like this even though the email clients (except for webmail) don't see them?
By default, IMAP clients (like Apple Mail) only marks the message as deleted (it is seen strikes with a line in WebMail). The messages are really removed on client exit (or anytime when the client decides). Since Exchange ActiveSync has no concept of "deleted but existing" message, the message is displayed normally on iPhone.
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- Pavel Dobry (Kerio)
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Messages: 3487-
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Karma: 63
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UPDATE: We've identified a possible problem that could cause this. It seems to happen on bigger installations with more users. In such situation the server could write the transaction log of message store operations from internal caches to the files slightly delayed.
iPhones with Push synchronisation then may ask for changes on the server too quickly and gets an empty answer.
The issue does not seem to happen when the iPhone uses Fetch synchronisation for emails.
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- nhoague
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Messages: 484-
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Karma: 4
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So then the iPhone with push receives an empty response, and never deletes / moves the message from the iPhone. Another item to note is Windows Mobile devices seem to resync (similar to IMAP) even when using ActiveSync. Is this perhaps just the way the iOS does things differently?
So the million dollar questions:
1) Do you think (even remotely) that this issue is fixable on larger installs such as mine?
2) What do you consider a larger install? I have seen a few posts on here with as little as 250 users. I have 750.
Thanks Pavel! At least we are making forward movement to even identify the problem.
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- lancorp
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Messages: 19-
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Karma: 0
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We have one user with two stuck messages on her iPhone from earlier this year.
We only have about 20 active users.
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- nhoague
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Messages: 484-
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Karma: 4
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20 users? Thats it?
Can you tell me what are your server specs and Connect version?
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- dominic@cbx.com
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Messages: 22-
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Started testing this theory again this morning, and so far, disabling push seems to be working. Here are the steps I performed:
1, Disabled Push on iPhone, (check every 15 minutes or whatever.)
2, Removed device from Kerio web admin > Users > [user] > more actions > mobile devices > remove
3, let the phone reconnect and sync
4, items deleted elsewhere now disappear from inbox.
hopefully this will continue to work and we can apply to our users devices, until a fix is released.
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- nhoague
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Messages: 484-
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Disabling push will always work. Because then the device does a fetch, which is basically using IMAP. But, then you lose push.
Yes im whining about 15 minutes.  Not just on my behalf but I guarantee if you tell users you just have to wait for the schedule check they will throw a fit!
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- dominic@cbx.com
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Messages: 22-
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I tried disabling push before. I think there was a suggestion earlier in the thread about it. But it didn't appear to help - perhaps because I never removed the device in admin?
Yes, users are impatient, to say the least.
Personally, my problem with interval fetch is that it kills the battery much faster.
-d
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- nhoague
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Messages: 484-
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Agreed, battery life is substantially lower.
Our current solution has always been to just remove the device from admin. It will resync quickly, but it's only a temp solution. The problem could arise within a few hours or days, but it always comes back. We are looking at possible solutions.
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- TorW
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Messages: 769-
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Karma: 6
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I've been working with three specific users for many weeks over a similar issue (iPhone seems to not sync properly), but it actually turned out that KOFF was the culprit. After a lot of systematic testing, we discovered that KOFF with large message caches (around 20.000 mails) doesn't always sync things back to the server. The iPhone, webmail and the server's message store was always synced, but Outlook's wasn't. Turns out all these users regarded Outlook's message folders as "the truth", while it's actually not.
Problam was solved (temporarily, at least) by nuking the users' Windows profiles and iPhone EAS setups and configuring from scratch.
Sorry in case I confuse anyone, but initially my problem appeared to be what's in the topic subject; "iPhone Active Sync out of Sync".
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- nhoague
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Messages: 484-
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@TorW: I have been talking to Kerio pretty heavily about this subject and we believe it may be caused by a combination of large user database and large data store. My servers have 750 users with 1.8TB of data and a mix of KOFF and Outlook 2011 clients.
What does your environment look like? Number of users, data store? And server specs? We are running Ubuntu 12.04 64bit, 32GB RAM, Quad Intel Xeon procs ... pretty beefy servers.
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- TorW
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Messages: 769-
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Karma: 6
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We have around 250 users, 450 GB data running off of a RAID10 SAN volume, RHEL5 on a IBM HS21 single CPU blade with 4 GB RAM. The system load and disk queue is negligible. Kerio Connect is 7.3.2. Most clients are Outlook 2007 with KOFF, but we have a lot of different clients. The users who experienced the problems all have Outlook 2007/KOFF running on a W2K3 x64 terminal server with 32 GB RAM and 50 users.
The only common thing between the users are their mailboxes with around 15-20.000 messages spread across 60-70 different folders. Mailbox size varies from 8 to 12 GB.
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- nhoague
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Messages: 484-
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Karma: 4
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Interesting. We are running 750 users on local RAID 5 storage. Performance has been good, but I think we are going to virtualize and split the servers into smaller installs of 200-250 each with a SAN backend.
Thanks for your info, I'll let you know if this helps our problem!
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- TorW
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Messages: 769-
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Karma: 6
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No problem, and please report back if you find out anything. I have a few users now who does not trust any of their various email clients anymore. Pretty irritating, after we literally spent months talking them out of MS Exchange ...
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- TorW
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Messages: 769-
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Karma: 6
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We still have the same issue, where messages deleted from Outlook's inbox aren't always deleted from the iPhone's inbox on large mail accounts with a high number of inbox subfolders. About 90% of the Outlook-deleted messages sticks around on the iPhone. Deleting the Windows profiles ultimately didn't help.
iPhone sync is set to manual, and iOS is 5.1.1.
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