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bioniccat

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I don't know if this is an Apple issue or a potential issue with Kerio's IMAP implementation, but does anyone know why undo doesn't seem to work in Mail.app after you've deleted something?

For example, if I delete something from the inbox and immediately try to apple-z it to brig it back, it sometimes will come back, but *if* if comes back, it'll remove itself again in a few seconds. Most often, it doesn't undo at all and I have to fish through the trash to get it back.

I'd be inclined to think something was up with Mail.app, but my .Mac / Me account will allow me to undo 'til the cows come home, but that may be some voodoo done by Apple on their end.

At any rate, any insight/commiseration/corroboration would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Stephen

PS: Seems to work in Entourage just fine, so maybe it is an Apple thing....

[Updated on: Wed, 08 October 2008 22:12]


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Bionic Cat
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Pavel Dobry (Kerio)

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I think you forgot to mention KMS version you're using. If it is KMS 6.6.0 RC then this is intended behavior.

We were flooded with many requests from customers stating that their IMAP clients (like Outlook and Apple Mail) can't immediately remove the message if it is marked as deleted. So, in KMS 6.6.0 the message is immediately removed during delete. 'Undo' action is useless in many clients as every client moves deleted message to the Deleted Items (or Trash) folder where it can be recovered if necessary.
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bioniccat

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Right you are! I'm using 6.6.

I suppose there's probably not a way to make this behavior user-configurable? I'd be curious to see what mail.app would do under the "old" way.

Cheers,
Stephen


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Bionic Cat
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elias

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Kerio_pdobry wrote on Wed, 08 October 2008 13:28

We were flooded with many requests from customers stating that their IMAP clients (like Outlook and Apple Mail) can't immediately remove the message if it is marked as deleted. So, in KMS 6.6.0 the message is immediately removed during delete.

Can you elaborate on this? Are you saying that you now delete a message immediately instead of flagging the message as deleted until an expunge is called?
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Pavel Dobry (Kerio)

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elias wrote on Wed, 08 October 2008 22:44


Can you elaborate on this? Are you saying that you now delete a message immediately instead of flagging the message as deleted until an expunge is called?



Exactly. Server does an immediate expunge of the message when it is being flagged with \Deleted flag in IMAP. Some clients do expunge only on exit and not after message delete. This could confuse other non-IMAP clients as they sometimes don't understand the flag and show already deleted messages. Or, (which is confusing for users) the deleted messages are displayed with striked line.
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tonym

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Please tell me you are going to make this user configurable. I have clients using Outlook with IMAP and they live by the fact that if they delete an email it stays there with a line through it until they purge. If I ever upgrade to KMS 6.6 or later then this will break and I'll have some angry people.
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shifty

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Hello,

i got one more question about this subject.

The problem is this:

We use Apple Mail.

You delete a mail, you press "Command-Z" to undo, and the mail ALWAYS gets back to you inbox and stays there until the client connects to the server the next time.

Than the mail is gone. You can not find it anywhere.

The Log shows this:

I delete the mail from the inbox:

[14/Apr/2009 14:42:42] {DELETE} Protocol: IMAP, User: my email address, IP: my ip, Folder: ~user/INBOX, From: "sender" <his email>, Subject: "Re: subjet", Delivered: 14/Apr/2009 11:54:38, Size: 7815

I press Undo, the mail comes back to inbox:

[14/Apr/2009 14:43:10] {DELETE} Protocol: IMAP, User: my email address, IP: my ip, Folder: user/Deleted Messages, From: "sender" <his email>, Subject: "Re: Subject", Delivered: 14/Apr/2009 11:54:38, Size: 7815

Then I press "get mail".. the messages disappears. Nothing in the log. You can not find it anywhere...

ideas?

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d.

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The only way (currently) to bring a message back is for an admin to:

-Bring back the deleted items for a user
OR
-Recover the file from the current mail server archive folder (e.g. 2009-W17).

Both currently require admin help for the staff member.

OTHER OPTION:

We tell staff that if you have deleted something, go to your Trash, and drag it to ANOTHER folder (e.g. don't just try an undo the action). So, go to the Trash, and move it out by hand to somewhere else (not the IMAP inbox).

Cheers,
Derek

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marook

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Hi,

I don't get this. The default setting for Mail.app is to Move the messages to the Trash folder when a user 'deletes' the message.
Messages in the Trash folder is Not marked with the 'deleted' flag, so the user or the client needs to Delete the messages it self, if it should be erased from the server.

Check the Account settings under Mailbox Behaviors...

Hope it helps.

Regards,

Jakob Peterhänsel
Consultant - Humac A/S

Apple Certified Support Professional (ACSP)
Apple Certified Technical Coordinator (ACTC)
AppleSeed/CQF member since 1998
Kerio Messaging Partner
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Lisa Lyons (Kerio)

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Hi, All

There is a form of user-configurability about this. If you are interested, please read the following knowledgebase article:

http://support.kerio.com/kb/493

Kerio Technical Support
Log Support Incidents here: http://www.kerio.com/support
Also, please use our KB: http://kb.kerio.com
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d.

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I gave this a try for our KMS installation, and moving mail from the Mac Mail "Trash" to the Inbox works beautifully.

I have many happier users now!

Such a simple solution too.

Cheers,
Derek

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cwachs

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This seemed like a simple solution until I turned it on and let it run for a few months. I then had a user call me who always uses IMAP via Thunderbird. One day, he logged into his webmail and found it was full of messages that he had deleted in Thunderbird that were still there with a strikethrough. Hundreds and hundreds of them. Made me then wonder how much drive space was being taken up by "deleted" messages.

What I have not come across is a solution for this. I turn on the "feature" to make Apple's Mail App work and it seems to mess things up for IMAP only users that don't log into webmail. Is there a way to purge or expunge these messages that IMAP users thought they were deleting? How long should they sit in the inbox with a strikethrough before actually going away?

-----------
Server installation:
Kerio Connect 7.1
OS X Server 10.5.8
Apple G4 X Serve
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d.

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Yes, I believe this feature exists in KMS.... (I'm looking at KMS 6.7.2)

Click on a user (or a user template), and go to the MESSAGES tab. For the "Items Clean-out" settings, either use the domain settings (e.g. we use 30 days).

Or set custom settings for the user Smile

The original setting should be in your Domains -> Messages section.

Hope that helps...

Cheers,
D.

[Updated on: Wed, 16 December 2009 07:08]


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cwachs

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That looks like it removes items from the deleted messages folder (which we keep set at 360 days per company policies) but does not clean out the INBOX and expunge messages marked for deletion from there via IMAP clients.

-----------
Server installation:
Kerio Connect 7.1
OS X Server 10.5.8
Apple G4 X Serve
d.

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Hi there.

I would have thought turning on the Mailbox options (Mail app -> Preferences -> Accounts -> Mailbox behaviors) would solve your client's problems.

e.g. Look for "Trash" options near the bottom...

Move deleted messages to the Trash mailbox
Permanently erase deleted messages when:
One month old.

Are you saying this screws things up if your clients use another IMAP client?

If your clients are using Thunderbird or similar, perhaps there is a similar option there?

It's likely to be a client-based setting, not a server based setting I would have thought. (Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong!) So each app would handle this (slightly) differently.

Cheers,
D.

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