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d.

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Hi Kerio forum folks.

We've got the Kerio 6.6 running with shared calendars OK, on Mac OS X server 10.4.11.

Clients (Mac OS X 10.5.5) can book appointments with free / busy availability of other internal staff. That's all fine.

Staff can receive appointments in iCal from EXTERNAL individuals, but these appear in the default "work" or "home" calendars in iCal. I.e. not the "shared" Kerio calendars. So, staff are effectively running their 'default' iCal calendars for external appointments, and running the Kerio calendar, for internal appointments. I.e. Like having two paper diaries on your desk.

We'd prefer it if all appointments could go into the Kerio calendar, since the simplier the calendar system for staff, the better! And hopefully, fewer double-bookings, or forgotten meetings.

From what we can see, there is no such possibility -- users have to accept / decline the external appointment in iCal as per normal methods (in their Work or Home non-shared calendar), and then draw their own appointment for the same period of time, in their free/busy shared Kerio calendar via iCal.

Has anyone been able to work out how to get an appointment from an external user (e.g. Company XYZ) to appear in the Kerio shared calendar, even as a 'tentative' or 'non-confirmed' appointment?

There must be a better way... Am I missing something obvious here?

Cheers,
Derek.

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indigospring

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You need to delete the Home and Work calendars that iCal provides by default.

Just use the default Kerio calendar for Work appointments and create another on the server for personal use. When invitations come in they will go into one of these calendars, but you will be able to choose the other from the popup list. iCal will not let you move appointments between "local" calendars and those held on the caldav server. Only between calendars of the same type. Make sure your users do not create new local calendars - they must all be held on the server.

New calendars can have any name you like,but if you rename the default Calendar the name change is only visible to iCal (and other iCal users if you share the calendar). In webmail the calendar will still be called "Calendar".
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d.

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Hello indigospring and forum folks.

We've tried deleting the local default iCal calendars (e.g. Work, Home). They disappear (delete) fine, leaving only the Kerio calendars.

But still when users receive an *external* appointment (e.g. from outside our Kerio server's domain), the appointment fails to appear in an iCal calendar at all. We get the email invite OK, and it looks "normal". But it doesn't appear in any of the Kerio calendars that the user has.

So the steps we do are:

  • Get someone to send an appointment from outside the organisation, in to us (usually these would appear in a local iCal "Work" calendar successfully)
  • (We double-check to make sure the email address is *exactly* correct, and not pointing to an alias or similar)
  • We receive the appointment in the Mail app seconds later
  • iCal automatically grabs the appointment, and tries to show it in iCal
  • No appointment actually shows in iCal for the above mentioned invite.
  • Double-clicking on the iCal appointment file in Mail opens iCal again, but doesn't show the appointment. Still M.I.A.
  • Other things we've checked is that we're scheduling the event in the future, and that the event is not late at night / outside what we can see in iCal. So, we don't think that is the issue.
  • The user has the default Kerio 'calendar' calendar (name not changed), and also some custom ones on the Kerio server, such as 'home'.

Any further ideas / thoughts welcome Smile.

Cheers,
Derek.

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marook

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Hi,

What happens if you Refresh iCal prior to readig the 'mail' in Mail.app?

What I see, is that if you double-click the event in Mail, iCal will put it into a local calendar.
If you Reload in iCal (or set iCal to auto-reload often) then it should trigger the WebDAV engine to pick up any invites in the inbox.

If not, Pleas log a ticket with Kerio!

But that said, I have this issue logged right now:
Ticket ID: QFJ-449262
BUG: Event replys from external attendees does not find calendar
-----------
Issue:
If a user creates an Event outside the "Calendar" calendar and invites external attendees, the Event feedback will not get picked up by the CalDAV engine.
Webmail will openly complain that the event is not in the users "Calendar" calendar.
Attendees Internal to the domain (or the complete server?) will happily get their reply into the event.

Affects:
All customers that invite external attendees.

What happens:
The WebDAV engine does not pick up event replies if the user is External and the event is not in Calendar calendar.
The reply is just sitting there in the inbox... Sad

What the Customer Expected to happen:
The event to get the reply and update the status of the attendee in the event. As it correctly does for internal replies.



Notes:
I can see that the UID in the reply event is not changed, so it should not be that hard to find..?
Or do you try to track on other elements as well?

Regards,

Jakob Peterhänsel
Consultant - Humac A/S

Apple Certified Support Professional (ACSP)
Apple Certified Technical Coordinator (ACTC)
AppleSeed/CQF member since 1998
Kerio Messaging Partner
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Pavel Dobry (Kerio)

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marook wrote on Fri, 28 November 2008 23:18

Hi,

What happens if you Refresh iCal prior to readig the 'mail' in Mail.app?

What I see, is that if you double-click the event in Mail, iCal will put it into a local calendar.
If you Reload in iCal (or set iCal to auto-reload often) then it should trigger the WebDAV engine to pick up any invites in the inbox.


Correct. Events opened in Apple Mail can go only to local calendars. If you want to place it into CalDAV account (Calendar), the event must be accepted in the iCal. This is how Apple Mail and iCal works. We cannot change it.
Quote:


Issue:
If a user creates an Event outside the "Calendar" calendar and invites external attendees, the Event feedback will not get picked up by the CalDAV engine.
Webmail will openly complain that the event is not in the users "Calendar" calendar.
Attendees Internal to the domain (or the complete server?) will happily get their reply into the event.

Notes:
I can see that the UID in the reply event is not changed, so it should not be that hard to find..?
Or do you try to track on other elements as well?



I guess 'External' means user on another server. Well, iCal can handle requests that are delivered to user's Inbox and the recipient name matches username in iCal. If the event is created in Public folder calendar (or any shared calendar) then the response can't match existing event because the event is not in user's calendar. Each user (ie. private calendars, shared calendar or public calendar) has own special 'Inbox' where iCal look for invitations and replies. Again, this is something what is almost impossible to change in Kerio. I'm sorry but this is not a bug.
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indigospring

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[quote title=Kerio_pdobry wrote on Fri, 28 November 2008 23:06]
marook wrote on Fri, 28 November 2008 23:18


I guess 'External' means user on another server. Well, iCal can handle requests that are delivered to user's Inbox and the recipient name matches username in iCal.



What happens when the Kerio/Open Directory username does not match the user's usual email address?

ie username is user<_a.t_>foo.com, but email address is first.last<_a.t_>foo.com?
Or the user has received either an invitation or a response via an alias (eg info<_a.t_>foo.com)?

Can iCal correctly match up invitations and replies, or will this cause problems - missing invitations or lost responses? Even if all users are local, but use their advertised email address (first.ast<_a.t_>foo.com) instead of their username?

[Updated on: Sat, 29 November 2008 09:56]

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marook

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Quote:

Quote:


Issue:
If a user creates an Event outside the "Calendar" calendar and invites external attendees, the Event feedback will not get picked up by the CalDAV engine.
Webmail will openly complain that the event is not in the users "Calendar" calendar.
Attendees Internal to the domain (or the complete server?) will happily get their reply into the event.

Notes:
I can see that the UID in the reply event is not changed, so it should not be that hard to find..?
Or do you try to track on other elements as well?



I guess 'External' means user on another server. Well, iCal can handle requests that are delivered to user's Inbox and the recipient name matches username in iCal. If the event is created in Public folder calendar (or any shared calendar) then the response can't match existing event because the event is not in user's calendar. Each user (ie. private calendars, shared calendar or public calendar) has own special 'Inbox' where iCal look for invitations and replies. Again, this is something what is almost impossible to change in Kerio. I'm sorry but this is not a bug.



But iCal is not a part here. It's al happening in CalDAV, either server-side to iCal (or entourage) or even Webmail.
The point her eis, even webmail can't handle the Invitation Responce in the user Inbox. And the ICS file do have the correct UUID, so why it can't find the event, is beyond me!

If you tell me you match up event replies on the email address, that really scares me, as ALL the events in a users calendar has the user email - I hope. So if you are not using the UUID to match it up - as mentioned - I'm getting scared!

[Updated on: Sat, 29 November 2008 12:47]


Regards,

Jakob Peterhänsel
Consultant - Humac A/S

Apple Certified Support Professional (ACSP)
Apple Certified Technical Coordinator (ACTC)
AppleSeed/CQF member since 1998
Kerio Messaging Partner
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Pavel Dobry (Kerio)

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marook wrote on Sat, 29 November 2008 12:47


But iCal is not a part here. It's al happening in CalDAV, either server-side to iCal (or entourage) or even Webmail.
The point her eis, even webmail can't handle the Invitation Responce in the user Inbox. And the ICS file do have the correct UUID, so why it can't find the event, is beyond me!


Inviation and replies work with default Calendar only. This is common standard in all email clients as they don't display reminders for events in other calendars - this is what the warning message is about. If you create event in another calendar, clients don't match the reply with the event as they don't look there. Moreover, they can't display a reminder for such event. Unfortunatelu, WebMail has to play same game as other clients. Even if we know that this can be done better, there are limitations caused by compatibility with many different clients on many platforms.
Quote:


If you tell me you match up event replies on the email address, that really scares me, as ALL the events in a users calendar has the user email - I hope. So if you are not using the UUID to match it up - as mentioned - I'm getting scared!

I'm not telling what Kerio is doing - this is what iCal does. Server of course use UUID for matching replies. iCal as well, but it ignores invitation which does not contain user's email in exact same match.

[Updated on: Sat, 29 November 2008 13:13]

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marook

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Ok, how can it be iCal??? iCal does not even GET the reply!

This is all happening in Kerio, and I have filed more than one issue/bug, that seems to end up with Kerio blaming it on 'Exchange can only work with one Calendar folder, so we do the same' serious LAME excuse!

You/Kerio allow the user to create More Than One Calendar, so Deal With It!

iCal does not get the event replies - it's Kerio CalDAV engine that does not pick it up, since 'ohh.. ohh, I can't find a matching event in Calendar folder, and I don't belive my user is SO stupid that he/she is Actually creating events in ANY other of the calendars that I allowed him/her to create'.

Come one.. don't blame it on a client app that don't even Get the CalDAV notice about a responce... this is simply to lame.

Kerio_pdobry, I don't know if you are one of the developers, or a tech support person, but in any case, if you 'only' want to support what Exchange does, why do you allow us to make more than one Calendar, and why do you support a lot of other suff that Exchange does not???

I can live with bugs, or features not implemented yet, but lame excusess... no.

Regards,

Jakob Peterhänsel
Consultant - Humac A/S

Apple Certified Support Professional (ACSP)
Apple Certified Technical Coordinator (ACTC)
AppleSeed/CQF member since 1998
Kerio Messaging Partner
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Pavel Dobry (Kerio)

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Easily. iCal does not use GET requests. It use REPORT and PROPFIND. Believe me, server does not do any matching of calendar event and invitation response - it is always a client who does it. The only exception is WebMail since it is in fact a client running on the server.
I didn't say a word about Exchange - it is not related to this
issue. BTW: We also don't like 'Exchange does it this way too' response but believe me, it does not mean "we don't want to do it better" but it always means "If we do it another way, most of clients will not work". Sad, but true reality.

I'm trying to explain some issues and help users by answering questions in this forum. Calling it 'lame excuses' with no real proof does not inspire me for continuing in this work.
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d.

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Hi Kerio forum folks.

Thanks for all your feedback.

Turning off the ability in iCal to retrieve the Mail invitations does the trick. The user CAN even have local calendars, and then Kerio's calendars picks up the invites since the Mail app isn't.

That's that one taken care of.

Now, a second question, as raised by indigospring...

Let's say our domain is companyabc.com
Our mail server address is mail.companyabc.com

When we receive calendar invites to "name<_a.t_>companyabc.com" the invite goes straight into our Kerio calendar, without any Accept/Deny options. We don't like it doing this.

When we receive a calendar invite to "name<_a.t_>mail.companyabc.com" the invite gets the "Accept / Deny" appointment dialogue (which is what we want).

All our business cards and reply to addresses naturally say "name<_a.t_>companyabc.com", not "name<_a.t_>mail.companyabc.com".

Is there a solution to this problem? Should we log a support ticket or similar? Or is there no easy solution.

Cheers,
D.

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indigospring

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Well I've done some experimenting and here's what seems to be happening.

All users are in Open Directory. Open Directory will not allow users to have a '.' in their username. The client has already standardised on <first.last<_a.t_>domain.com> for email addresses and invested a lot in printed stationery etc.

So when users are activated in Kerio from Open Directory they need to have first.last added as an additional email address.

This seems to be a major problem. The users, of course, are inviting each other to meetings using their "official" email address. If they do that everything goes wrong. iCal places the meeting in a random calendar and only allows the user to select "OK" in the Notifications section. Worse, the meeting organiser never receives any responses back and has no idea who will attend. I presume because <jim.jones<_a.t_>domain.com> was invited, but <jjones<_a.t_>domain.com> responded.

If users are trained to always use their username instead of their email address, then things work much better. But, not surprisingly, that is confusing and error prone.

But this is really a disaster. The ability to add extra email addresses is almost a waste of time. Internal users can't use that for calendaring (only for email) and always have to remember which to use and when. Invitations coming from outside are handled even worse. Mail and iCal can't see the invitations at all, except as attachments. Clicking on them has no effect (as described by others above). Kerio webmail at least shows Accept, Reject and Maybe buttons, but users do not use webmail generally.

(I'm not going to go into how awful iCal is at generating invitations from local, non CalDAV, calendars if you have multiple email accounts configured in Mail. Suffice to say I think Mail and iCal are badly broken.)

Clearly iCal and Mail are dumb. iCal has no idea that jim.jones<_a.t_>domain.com and jjones<_a.t_>domain.com are the same user, and neither Mail nor iCal can gracefully handle invitations coming from outside the domain.

Perhaps the Kerio CalDAV engine could help - Kerio clearly knows all the email addresses a user has. Couldn't it fake up matching appointments for iCal? Are the invitations and replies generated by Kerio or iCal? If it's Kerio, then Kerio could "translate" email addresses into usernames to help iCal and then "translate" them back again when sending responses. It could also make external invitations arriving in the Inbox behave the same as internal ones. This should work for users with additional role based email addresses as well (such as info<_a.t_> or sales<_a.t_> or enquiries<_a.t_>...)

Failing that, what's the best way to rename all the users in a domain from <username<_a.t_>domain.com> to <first.last<_a.t_>domain.com>? I presume delete all the users in Kerio (but keep the mailstore files). Perform some hairy, unsupported renaming from the command line. Recreate all the accounts in Kerio as local accounts and then run around every computer and phone reconfiguring everything. And of course it's twice the user admin required on an ongoing basis as every user will have two accounts - one in Open Directory and another in Kerio.

Is there a better way? I think Open Directory will allow secondary usernames to have a dot, but I'm sure that having that other short username that doesn't match the email address will surface again and cause problems.
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d.

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Hi folks.

We recently went through some renaming conventions. So staff accounts are now firstname.surname<_a.t_>company.com

Old staff have an alias for the account, but new staff get the correct name upfront.

We're just adding the names straight into Kerio, and using that as our directory 'master' for LDAP contacts.

None of this helps with the Calendar invites of course, since our email addresses are actually firstname.surname<_a.t_>mail.company.com.

Ideally, it would be Kerio Mail Server that would work out that a particular user, and an alias address, are the same user, so that the calendar invites would work regardless of what email address is being used for that user.

Interestingly, aliases appear to come up in LDAP address lookups. So, it would be good if the Calendar hooked in and said "Oh yes, that's the same user. Here is your invite, AND here you go, you can receive/respond to anyone with full response details sent accordingly now". That's my wish for the day.

Razz

Cheers,
D.

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indigospring

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dy-e wrote on Thu, 04 December 2008 22:23

So, it would be good if the Calendar hooked in and said "Oh yes, that's the same user. Here is your invite, AND here you go, you can receive/respond to anyone with full response details sent accordingly now". That's my wish for the day.



I've not tried this with my client yet, but iCal apparently uses your "Me" card in Address Book for matching meeting invitations. At least it certainly does for local calendars. Try adding your other email addresses to your address card.

It might also be worth looking into YAI for massaging incoming invitations from outside:

http://www.nhoj.co.uk/


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d.

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Hello indigospring and forum folks.

Yes, iCal uses the "Me" address book card.

But for Kerio-based calendars, iCal doesn't actually receive the invite -- the Kerio Mail Server intercepts it.

So, we (and other organisations) will need a solution that doesn't rely on anything iCal related.

The issue at hand is still how to handle the differing "suffix" of the email address, which can vary from the actual mail server domain name suffix.

e.g. firstname.surname<_a.t_>companyname.com
vs
firstname.surname<_a.t_>mail.companyname.com

As another way of looking at the problem, imagine you have a web-mail user... They won't be using iCal, just the Kerio webmail server / webcalendar interface. They need to be able to accept calendar appointments directly from there. But it relies on the suffix of their email address being correct, regardless of whether the message was sent to an "alias" domain address or not.

Any other ideas to link up calendar events when the email domain address is slightly different from the invitation email address, using Kerio's shared calendars in KMS 6.6?

Cheers,
D.

[Updated on: Mon, 08 December 2008 02:20]


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