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Home » Kerio User Forums » Kerio Connect » Kerio Connect 7...Exchange 2007 Compatibility? (I'm Excited about Connect 7, but worry it still is not Exchange 2007 Compatible)
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jstrickland

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I was very excited to see the announcement about Kerio Connect 7. However, I was disappointed to see no mention in the release notes about Exchange 2007 compatibility.

I have an office full of Macs that would love to upgrade to Snow Leopard. However, they can't until the Exchange 2007 compatibility is offered by Kerio. I know I can use IMAP for Apple Mail, but that seems like a step back.
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Pavel Dobry (Kerio)

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Apple applications offer two ways of syncing data: Apple way (open protocols like IMAP, CalDAV, CardDAV) and Microsoft way (Exchange 2003 or Exchange 2007). Both have same features. From user's perspective there is no difference.
Kerio MailServer supports open protocols as well as Exchange 2003 protocol for synchronization.
Apple Mail with Exchange 2003 account (IMAP+WebDAV) is working very well with Kerio MailServer. iCal can be synchronized via CalDAV.
So it is possible to use all Apple applications on Snow Leopard with all features without the need of E2007 support.
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topher1078

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That's not accurate though. While yes, email and CalDAV work fine on Snow Leopard, contact syncing still relies on the Kerio Sync Connector rather than the built in Exchange functionality. That forces users to rely on a third party tool and creates another point of failure. The sync connector itself works fine for the most part, but has created some problems in the past as it gets confuses if the server or client has authority over contact updates.

Additionally, Exchange 2007 functionality on Snow Leopard offers a dramatically easier setup than a Kerio client setup - one user name and password and instantly Mail, Address Book, and iCal are all configured. Currently, each of those programs must be configured separately and two require separate downloads which is definitely not the easiest method.

I'd rather see Exchange 2007 protocol functionality than any other new feature. I can understand if Kerio can't reverse engineer the E2007 protocol for Snow Leopard. If that is the case please say so, but don't pretend that the current Kerio offers feature parity with Snow Leopard/E2007 because it really does not.
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MrTubz

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I agree, personally i think it would be much better to have everything integrated under one unified system.

Whilst the sync connector works for the most part it does throw up some random errors and is another application to configure.

If we could use the Exchange 2007 Services it would be fairly simple to setup a .plist records within a user account in OD and when that person logs in their email will be pre-configured.

Is Exchange 2007 / EWS something that will be written into the server at some point?

At present I really dont want to migrate to 10.6 as it will break all my in app syncing. With 10.5 i dont need to rely on additional plugins it just seems to work.

Perhaps there is an easier and more scriptable way to deploy the sync connector?????
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jcwelch

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Kerio_pdobry wrote on Thu, 12 November 2009 22:10
Apple applications offer two ways of syncing data: Apple way (open protocols like IMAP, CalDAV, CardDAV) and Microsoft way (Exchange 2003 or Exchange 2007). Both have same features. From user's perspective there is no difference.
Kerio MailServer supports open protocols as well as Exchange 2003 protocol for synchronization.
Apple Mail with Exchange 2003 account (IMAP+WebDAV) is working very well with Kerio MailServer. iCal can be synchronized via CalDAV.
So it is possible to use all Apple applications on Snow Leopard with all features without the need of E2007 support.



However, that's assuming that the only reason for needing that support is for Apple applications. That's leaving out things like Entourage EWS, the upcoming Outlook Mac, and WinOutlook's own support for EWS. the DAV support in Kerio is nice, but it doesn't allow for the task and note syncing support that you get from EWS, so there's a clear featureset difference.

As well, while *basic* CalDAV support works okay, iCal completely falls over if you even try to have something more complicated than "Everyone has full RW support to all public folders", because iCal can't handle complex ACLs. I'm not sure that EWS fixes that, but it can't be any worse. Either way, when it comes to iCal, no, you don't actually get "all the features".

I can tell you right now that the user experience on KMS, from a features support standpoint, is FAR better with Entourage than it is with Apple's applications, but if you don't support EWS, that will go away, and there are a lot of people who use and like E'rage.

Aside from client issues, moving to EWS + Open Standards would give the widest range of client support across more platforms in a simpler manner than the current DAV + Balky MAPI connector + Open Standards. If we never had to deal with the MAPI plugin again, do you really think we'd cry?
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Pavel Dobry (Kerio)

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The original question was about Macs and Snow Leopard and my answer was a response to that. I'm not going to discuss here other topics. Thanks.

We're aware of the importance and impact of EWS. As I already wrote several times in this forum, EWS support is in the plan.

[Updated on: Tue, 17 November 2009 19:09]

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jcwelch

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Okay, then address my point about iCal being unable to properly deal with KMS public folders published via CalDAV. Does that same issue exist with EWS? Since you're claiming full functionality for iCal + KMS via CalDAV, when will Kerio change how it does rules so that iCal can deal with public folders better. According to Kerio support, it's an iCal issue, but if iCal has "full support for all functionality" via CalDAV, then why does this issue even exist?

Similarly, if IMAP + WebDAV provides "full support" then why can I not see public contact folders in Address Book without creating multiple LDAP entries? Shouldn't that "just work"?

Note, this is all based on Mac OS X 10.6.2 and the current shipping rev of KMS. If Kerio Connect 7 is going to fix all of this, then please do point us at the release notes and documentation that will better inform us of this.
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Pavel Dobry (Kerio)

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jcwelch wrote on Tue, 17 November 2009 19:15
Okay, then address my point about iCal being unable to properly deal with KMS public folders published via CalDAV. Does that same issue exist with EWS? Since you're claiming full functionality for iCal + KMS via CalDAV, when will Kerio change how it does rules so that iCal can deal with public folders better. According to Kerio support, it's an iCal issue, but if iCal has "full support for all functionality" via CalDAV, then why does this issue even exist?

I see your point. But I think this is a question for Apple - iCal vendor. I haven't run EWS in iCal personally so right I cannot comment this now.
Quote:

Similarly, if IMAP + WebDAV provides "full support" then why can I not see public contact folders in Address Book without creating multiple LDAP entries? Shouldn't that "just work"?

Because IMAP and WebDAV are for emails in Apple Mail. AddressBook can be synchronized either with Kerio Sync Connector or in the future with CardDAV. I can assure the CardDAV will provide more functions than EWS in the AddressBook.
Quote:

Note, this is all based on Mac OS X 10.6.2 and the current shipping rev of KMS. If Kerio Connect 7 is going to fix all of this, then please do point us at the release notes and documentation that will better inform us of this.

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jcwelch

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Well, since it's your public folder implementation that iCal is having issues with, and not just shared folders, I'd say you bear the lion's share of responsibility, but I do recognize when someone's done talking about something to drop it.

As for the rest...

While CardDAV is nice for Address Book users, what about Mac users not using Apple's applications? What about Windows administrators who are tired of dealing with the 'joy' of managing MAPI plugins?

Is Kerio simply abandoning Entourage EWS and all users of Outlook Mac in terms of Exchange support? Are all future users of Outlook stuck at whatever the MAPI plugin provides, even though Microsoft has, very clearly stated that both MAPI and DAV are going away, and aren't even defaults in Ex2010?

Because that's what it sounds like, somewhat on Windows, and VERY clearly on the Mac: We aren't going to support EWS. If that's the case, we'd like a clear statement on that now, so we can start planning what we have to do. I have a wide range of users very happy with their client of choice, and to be blunt, the *primary* reason for choosing KMS was the breadth of client support. If that is going away, then Kerio needs to tell its customers *now*, so we can plan what we're going to do now, rather than waiting to find out we're stuck on legacy software to keep our users functioning.

It's a simple question that is of great importance: Is EWS coming to 7.0?
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Pavel Dobry (Kerio)

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jcwelch wrote on Tue, 17 November 2009 21:38
Well, since it's your public folder implementation that iCal is having issues with, and not just shared folders, I'd say you bear the lion's share of responsibility, but I do recognize when someone's done talking about something to drop it.

Correct. It's a price we have to pay for universal compatibility and multi-platform support. Public folders with different ACLs are not supposed to be used in iCal at all. We've offered this feature to our customers with this small limitation. We do the best we can within the restrictions of used clients.
Quote:

While CardDAV is nice for Address Book users, what about Mac users not using Apple's applications? What about Windows administrators who are tired of dealing with the 'joy' of managing MAPI plugins?

Again, you are trying to hijack this thread. I understand your position. But I will not discuss here future Windows clients which are not released yet.
Quote:

Is Kerio simply abandoning Entourage EWS and all users of Outlook Mac in terms of Exchange support?

Please read again (carefully) my answers and previous threads related to EWS. I've never written anything in this manner what could invoke your question. I don't understand why are you trying to accuse us of that.
Quote:

It's a simple question that is of great importance: Is EWS coming to 7.0?

As you may have noticed the Connect 7.0 is beta and it is not technically possible to add EWS to this version now. I will not comment any further version here. Thanks for understanding.

[Updated on: Tue, 17 November 2009 22:01]

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jcwelch

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The title of this thread is "Kerio Connect 7...Exchange 2007 Compatibility". I'm not sure how asking for information on EWS, which is a part of that compatibility is "hijacking". Based on the actual title of the thread, talking about CalDAV and CardDAV support is closer to that than asking about hijacking.

What I am, and evidently the OP of the thread are asking about is the status of Exchange 2007 support, which by nature includes EWS, in Kerio Connect 7, not the current version of KMS.

If you can't talk about Kerio Connect 7, and will not, then why not state that in your first reply, rather than wasting time talking up CardDAV/CalDAV and how they will be better? I have a building full of Macs too, running a fairly wide range of clients, along with some windows clients. This is not a minor question for us, and if you can't talk at all about Kerio Connect 7, then just say so. It will save us all a lot of time, and I can stop looking for useful information on KC 7 from this resource.
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GlennK

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I can understand the frustration. But accusations are not going to help. I too hope for Exchange 2007 support.
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Tomas Soukup (Kerio)

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Hello,

we are very aware of EWS and its future importance. We very closely watch Microsoft's and Apple's steps and incorporate them in our future plans and strategy.

We plan EWS support, not to Kerio Connect 7.
We will support it at appropriate time.

Tomas Soukup
Product development manager

Tomas Soukup
Product Development Manager
Kerio Technologies

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jfitzell

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jstrickland wrote on Fri, 13 November 2009 07:55
I was very excited to see the announcement about Kerio Connect 7. However, I was disappointed to see no mention in the release notes about Exchange 2007 compatibility.

I have an office full of Macs that would love to upgrade to Snow Leopard. However, they can't until the Exchange 2007 compatibility is offered by Kerio. I know I can use IMAP for Apple Mail, but that seems like a step back.


If Kerio are going to invest time in updating the Exchange functionality, I'd hope they're aiming for Exchange 2010 rather than 2007.
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MacPhisto

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Kerio_tsoukup wrote on Fri, 20 November 2009 15:27
We will support it at appropriate time.



appropriate = now! Embarassed
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