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adrianfm

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Hi there

I have just switched 60 user to Kerio. But the problem is that Outlook with the Offline Connector i Extremly slow and users can take several minutes jus getting Outlook open. Switching between inbox and sent items can take minutes. Does any one know anything about this isue?

We have:
Server/network:
• Gigabit all over. 8-core Xeon server with 15k SAS raid 5 drives. Kerio 7.1.2

Users:
• Outlook 2007 with Offline connector
• Windows Vista
• All with at least 4 GB ram

It is epecially people with lots of e-mails that sufferes. For instance going from inbox to sent items with 20.000 items can take 2 minutes....
I should mention that it was the same amount og emials coming from Exchange 2003.

I have tried on users:
• Switching of all add-on's
• Disabling indexing services.
• Removed "group view" in Outlook

I really hope for some suggestions because people are really annoyed!!!

Adrian
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mwheeler

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Also make sure your companies antivirus realtime scanning doesn't scan the Kerio database on the server or clients. That can cause huge delays. I believe the details are in the manual on what exceptions should be set in the AV.
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adrianfm

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Thank you. I will defenitly have a look at this tomorrow when i get back to work! I'll let you know if there is any results.
Adrian
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kernell32

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Hello,

i had exactly the same problem, it took me quite a while before i finally accepted that kerio actually cant handle more than about 15k mails on the root of Inbox/Sent/Trash, i know exchange can but kerio cannot - atleast not in our setup.
Anyway i took the chance to animate our users to clean up their mailboxes.

Pick one big mailbox for a test and try moving mails from the root folders (Inbox/Sent/Trash) to subdirectories so that there are no more than 5k mails on root level i bet you will be surprised. Dont try to mess around with the mail files on the server for that just move them inside outlook.

cheers
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adrianfm

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mwheeler: I tried the virus experiment. I completly unistalled it (F-secure) to make sure no matter what it wasn't that. But it's still slow.

The server is powerfull and when i look at it has almost nothing to do...

In the mean time i found that it is users which has a LOT of mails in one folder. For insrance sent items containing 30.000 items is a problem.

kernell32: I have almost come to the same conclusion. I will try to make a person split up the sent items into smaller folders - maybe 1 folder per year...

People not suffering from the slowness is people with small amount of e-mails - 10-15.000....

Thanks for replies!!!
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kernell32

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adrianfm wrote on Fri, 26 November 2010 12:56
I have almost come to the same conclusion. I will try to make a person split up the sent items into smaller folders - maybe 1 folder per year...


Thats exactly what i did.

To me this seems a KOFF Problem not a general kerio/server problem, for some reason KOFF seems to rescan the content of the root folders each time some event occurs (incomming mail, deletion, outgoing etc.).
Im wondering how microsoft does that, because if you use offline caching together with exchange parsing the ost file doesnt give those lags, but the technology must must be rather similar... well im not a developer

Funny is that if you create a huge subfolder it can contain 40k mails and as far as i see no severe lags occur even when switching between huge subfolders frequently.

cheers

[Updated on: Fri, 26 November 2010 13:42]

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styson

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It looks like you have you reviewed the Outlook + KOFF KB article here: http:// support.kerio.com/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarti cle&kbarticleid=582&nav=0,1,22

Make sure that large folders that are not used regularly are set to only download headers not the whole message or even better, to not sync them. This helps keep the local cache database full of important items not everything and keeps the server load down as well. Searching will still work great since that is a server function even in Outlook AFAIK.

From what I have learned watching the Kerio mail server's processes on our Windows Server, every time a user makes any kind of change to their mailbox or folders (add, update, delete) the Kerio server updates that user's search information which is maintained by folder. Because Kerio uses flat files to store emails not a database like Exchange it must maintain these sorting indexes or searching would be horribly slow. So moving a message from the Inbox to a folder triggers an update to the Inbox search index as well as the destination folder's.

[Updated on: Tue, 30 November 2010 21:21]

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chris.lee

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I only have 13k items in my Inbox, and just under 8k items in my Sent items and run into the same slowness whenever flicking from Inbox to Sent Items it takes up to 60 seconds and sometimes longer while it generates the view.

Also KoffBackend.exe can be a real memory hog, it's only chewing through 135MB at the moment but I've seen it run upwards of 500MB

I've also just come to accept that Kerio Offline connector just can't handle large amounts of email.

I've been reluctant to archive off my Inbox and Sent items; as a System Administrator I randomly and infrequently still require easy access to emails from a couple of years ago, but I guess I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and archive it off as the slowness does tend to drive me up the wall at times and pine for Outlook and Exchange (or better yet, Google Apps which I use for my own personal domain and is just brilliant using either Google Chrome at home or HTC Desire on the road).

One of our users here with a lot of email also got so fed up with Kerio Offline slowness that he's changed to using the webmail client internally, and just very rarely switches into Outlook (usually to do a full text search through emails, as webmail is still poor at that unfortunately).

[Updated on: Wed, 01 December 2010 01:54]

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styson

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I too am a systems admin and a CEO and I keep everything as well. I'm not making excuses for Kerio's known weakness which is handling very large message counts in any folder but my point is email needs to be properly managed and IMHO having 13k items in a live inbox is poor email management regardless of the server. Exchange lets you get away with this to a point but Kerio doesn't.

We provide hosted Kerio to our clients and I have a client who has 3 users with large item counts. Their email boxes range from 2.5-4.7 GB in size and message counts run from 16k - 42k. They all access Kerio over the internet (Comcast 12/2 business connection) using KOFF + Outlook 2003 on 4 year old hardware with 2GB of RAM and WinXP Pro. Outlook is NOT slow for them except when they first open it when KOFF loads the local cache database. It's not slow because they are using folders to organize their email, we turned grouping off on the large message count folders such as sent items and for sent items it only syncs the headers. They also use a local archive so they aren't keeping 10 years of email on the server. The archive PST files are backed up off site everyday and they are open in outlook for quick access.

I have over 9800 emails in my account and it runs great. My rig is a bit newer with a Core 2 Duo, Win7 x64, Office 2010 and 4GB of RAM. I keep my inbox under 2k items most of the times and use the same tweaks I preach to my clients because I also access Kerio over the internet via a Comcast 12/2 business account. Takes Outlook about 45-60 seconds each morning to get going and after that, no slow downs at all. KOFF will climb to about 250MB of RAM by the end of the day.

KOFF using large amounts of RAM is by design since it's a cache for your email. If you have a machine with 2+ GB of RAM it should be a don't care.

Sorry for the diatribe but I think it's important to use solid email management techniques regardless of the type of server and in Kerio's case it makes a huge difference in performance.
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adrianfm

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Hi guys...

Just wanted to let you guys know my progess.... I have done extensive tests. It turns out exactly whay you have been pointing out. Many e-mails in a single folder makes Outlook slow. There is no way out of it. I have tried everything. The problem is that a folder like the "sent items" folder never gets smaller. It just gets bigger all the time - unless you manually throw mails out or make sub-folders... and so on.

I have tried disabling every add-on, indexing and antivirus, group view and so on. I have tested Windows Vista, Windows 7, Outlook 2007 and 2011 - all combinations with the same results. Large mailbox folders = slow Outlook.

I discovered that when you first clicked a large folder, waited for it to load, and then clicked away and then back again it is fast switching between folders you have visited. However doing work in another programme like Word or Excel and THEN returning to the large folder will make it reload all over. Now this sounds like a memory problem but i have 4 GB on a 32bit system... So it does not help to upgrade the memory since a 32bit system wont be able to use it anyway. I do have some 64 bit systems and that is not much better.

So to wrap up: Kerio is a great product. It has great webmail, recovery functions and admin tools. The migration from Exchange is easy - however it has some problems as i have discovered which might come in handy for readers thinking of buying Kerio Connect. (As of version 7.1.2)
1) The migration tool skips folders with a space in front og in the back of the foldername.
2) You can't have a distribution list inside another group using Active Directory.
3) Send "on behalf of" does not work as it should. At the time of writing everyone can send as everyone. I have no idea which button to push for that not to be possible?
4) Ability to share all folders at once. Major isue! If you have 200 folders and wan't to share them to a specific user you have to manually go into EVERY folder and share them.
5) 'Open other users folder' can't be used. Only way is opening is in the account prefs. - And that creates a whole mailbox in the folder list.
6) third party programs that uses the Outlook calendar - or table phone's that uses the Outlook address book can't be used.

Thats all... I am working on a plan to make people move everything into folders...

Thanks for all your replies!!!!

Adrian
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