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allgraphicsit

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Dear All,

Since around January I have been having timeout issues at a couple of client sites. When users want to move loads of emails around they are usually only allowed to move a handful, when they move more that around 200 they start to get time out errors.

In the past I know one user who would move an entire years worth of inbox emails to a folder with the name of that year. It could be 5k messages and it would just transfer from one IMAP folder to the next. Now he has to move it in 100 email chunks.

Details of the two servers in question:

1.
Xserve Xeon, 12GB RAM, internal RAID5. 10.7.4 server and Kerio Connect 7.4.0

Clients are 10.6.8 using Apple Mail, Exchange IMAP accounts with SSL on (authorised certificate).

I have also tried just IMAP.

Have also tried Thunderbird.


2. MacMini Server Intel Core 2 Duo, 8GB RAM, Firewire Promise RAID, 10.6.8 server and Kerio Connect 7.2.3

Clients are 10.7.4 using Apple Mail, Exchange IMAP without SSL.



I have also tested 1000 of my own emails on server 1 and get the same symptoms. I have setup a new Kerio install on a Quad Core MacPro, 12GB RAM, etc... and tested the same emails and the same thing happens.

The same emails will transfer without problem to an Office 365 exchange account, I can move the emails to different folders, delete and there are no problems at all.

Anyone got any ideas? I think that a Kerio update must have changed something along the way, users are popping up here and there when they want to do a bit of tidying up.

The error from Apple Mail:

Quote:
1102 messages could not be moved to the mailbox "test -- Account Name"

The connection to the server "server.address.com" on port 993 timed out.


??

Thanks,

David

[Updated on: Thu, 28 June 2012 19:27]

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allgraphicsit

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Dear all,

I have had no replies on this but thought I would update my findings anyway.

I have since setup Ubuntu Server 12 and installed Kerio Connect. The same emails work absolutely fine, on a really poor old Celeron dell I had knocking around.

So it cannot me Apple Mail, must be Kerio Connect on Mac OS X.

I am also now using Mountain Lion and still same problem.

I am thinking of just moving to linux now.

Anyone got any comments?

Thanks,

David Lee
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tonyswu

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For Kerio Connect (or possibly any mail server), disk performance is more important than anything else in your system statistics. You didn't mention how many users on your KC server, so I am assuming you have 200+. Xserve with internal RAID 5 is definitely not fast enough, not to mention your system and data are on the same drive, which are competing for disk I/O. Your second setup is a bit better, but Firewire is still a bit too slow for mail server (only 800Mbit maximum). I would recommend you try a Thunderbolt Promised Pegasus (or other similar Thunderbolt unit, Sonnet has similar units I believe). Configure it to use RAID 10, and keep your mail store on it.You'll be surprised how much faster it is. Of course, if you want to be serious, iSCSI with a nice RAID unit is also an option.

As a side note, when I upgraded our KC server from Xserve to Mac Mini + Pegasus Thunderbolt, I did some testing comparing the speed on RAID 5 and RAID 10. I didn't use any commercial disk speed testing tool, because they don't test small files. I instead wrote my own script that basically writes 2,000,000 files onto the disk, each file ranging from 1KB to 999KB. I found RAID 10 to be about 1.75 times faster than RAID 5 on that unit.
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allgraphicsit

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Hello tonyswu,

Thanks very much for your response. I have about 60 people on the first server and about 10 on the 2nd. They both suffer.

I have played around a lot with this now. I even tried installing Kerio on a a 10.6 MacPro with one user, the same problems with moving 1000 emails.

Amazing that the poor little Celeron Dell, with 30Gb ide hard disk handles this extremely well.

Seems to me to be Kerio on Mac that is the problem, it all used to work fine. Are you able to move 1000+ emails via Apple Mail on your Thunderbolt mail server?

Those MacMini's hold up really well, love the Promise Thunderbolt RAIDs, I have setup a few now but not for email.

I am running out of ways of testing it, I don't want to get another OS X installation if the problem is still there, I might see if I can find a way of installing Linux on the Xserve for a couple of hours and try out the Promise Firewire RAID.

Thanks,

David
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tonyswu

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Hi,

Yes, I am able to move 1000+ emails using Apple Mail (this is Apple Mail on 10.7). In fact, I just moved 3700 emails last night from one folder to another. I don't know enough about KC on Windows or how KC handles writing/reading on Mac, so I can't really tell you whether or not the problem is specific to Mac. But I can tell you that our KC server with 248 users works quite well with Mac Mini and Pegasus RAID.
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allgraphicsit

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Hi tonyswu,

Thanks for all that, gives me some confidence back in using a mac for this. I might try and sneak a test onto a mac mini I have access to.

Many thanks,

David
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tonyswu

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No problem, let me know how it works out.
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GlennK

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One of our servers is an Xserve with external eSATA RAID 10, 240 users. No problem moving thousands of messages at a time. Previously it was internal to the Xserve and it was much slower. We do have another server that still has all internal with fewer users and everything is still fine, but there is far less demand. I'm surprised you have any trouble with 10 users. That's nothing. Make sure you turn off all extraneous services like Spotlight and Time Machine. A Mac Pro should do that in its sleep. Smile On the other hand if you get all the users moving things simultaneously.... that is the problem we had in the past. Monday morning and everyone wanted to clean up their inbox.
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allgraphicsit

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Hi GlennK,

This has me stumped.

My MacPro test machine had one account on it and it still errors on 1k emails.

All very odd.

I am pleased to see I now have two people confirming that their Mac Kerio servers are able to move thousands of emails without error.

I will get back to it.

Thanks,

David
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kreesurgeon

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Did you ever get a resolution to this one. I'm now having the same problem.

Config is:

Server 10.7.5 Xserve (2008) Kerio 8.3.2 - Mail store is a individual SATA drive tested at 80MB/s read 70MB/s Write

Clients 10.9.# iMac's
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allgraphicsit

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Nope, went to SSD and seems to work ok most of the time now.

I look after a few kerio connect servers and have had the same problem on 4 of them.
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