Connect. Communicate. Collaborate. Securely.

Home » Kerio User Forums » Kerio Connect » Evaluating Kerio Connect (some questions about that...)
  •  
Maerad

Messages: 158
Karma: 31
Send a private message to this user
Hi Smile

Right now we use a Small Business Server 2011 and - with the EOL of the productline - we need a good alternative for the exchange server.

After some market search, I think kerio connect would be the best solution, but before I start with an intensive testing, I would like to hear some opinions from ppl actually using it and have some open questions.

We have a hosted VM Server with hmailserver as antispam/virus and smtp-relay infront of our exchange. With kerio, we would assign our local kerio server as first mailserver and the hosted hmailserver as secondary mail, if the local one is down (kerio mx1, hmail mx2). kerio itself would be installed on a server 2012 standard with all essential ports forwarded and send/recive directly (no smtp-relay). hmailserver would just "cache" the mails when there is an offline time and relay them if the server is online again.

Local connection is a 1 mbit up/16 Mbit down ADSL line with static IP, the VM server runs on a 155 mbit hosted line.

We've got a main and a branch office, connected over a vpn tunnel and a 2 mbit sdsl. All employees work on a terminal server with win2k8 r2 (Two TS total, one main office, one branch) and office 2010 installed, using outlook for mail, public calendar etc.

Our road workers connect on the terminal services too (vpn), have a local installed office with outlook on their notebooks. Also they use smartphones + tablets connected to the exchange with active sync - mixed devices with android and ios.

To the direct questions! Smile

1. I read that I have to use the offline kerio connector for outlook and kerio on a terminal server. Does that mean, that every outlook has a local cache (like the exchange cache) enabled by default or can I still use a "live" connection? Right now we don't use redirected folders, but I plan to do so for the future - in a thread from 2010 this was maybe a problem with a local mail cache...
2. Is the kerio client an own program or does it only run as webmail? Not that important right now, but we get a new ERP-System, using the MAPI and/or with outlook the API to grab mails etc. Can I use the MAPI with the Kerio Client too?
3. We have two public mail adresses for the main office and the branch, running into two public exchange accounts right now and with the new ERP-System we will recive our faxes as mails too. That means I need two public mail folders for branch and main office (with access for specific users) and public calendars for each. How can/could I do that in kerio? Do I need two seperate, licensed mailboxes/accounts for it (and share them), could I do it with public folders or is there any other way? Don't need a detailed guide, it's more a question about how many licences I need to buy.

Most other things we need I already saw in the online demo like multiple mail domains or found on the website. Are there any other problems/features that won't work with outlook? Any other stuff I should to check/know for our current config? Any known problems that could arise with my plans above?

Thank you all so much for some feedback Smile
  •  
Maerad

Messages: 158
Karma: 31
Send a private message to this user
Mhh, can't someone help me here a bit? Smile
  •  
BudDurland

Messages: 348

Karma: 10
Send a private message to this user
I'll try..

In your environment, my biggest concern would be the terminal server. I'm not certain that the kerio Offline connector plays nice there. Even if it does, it takes a significant amount of resource -- 80MB+ of RAM, plus disk space equal to about 110% of the user's mail store for each user. You may want to look at an alternative client, such as eMClient, that leverages all the open standards (IMAP, iCal, etc), and provides an interface that is 98% like outlook. It also has a built in XMPP chat client, if you decide to deploy that Feature of kerio Connect.

With versions prior to Office 2010, you can use the Kerio ONLINE connector, which does not take nearly as many resources as the offline connector. However, the user has to be connected to the network/internet for it to work.

The Kerio Client is ONLY web mail. MAPI does not apply to the Kerio Client, but if you have OutLook installed, that can be your MAPI vehicle.

If faxes are sent to a specific, fax-only address, you can create a public mail folder, then setup an alias that places all received mail into that folder. The final step is to configure user access to the folder, which is quite easy. If I remember correctly, this does NOT consume a user license.

Hope this helps


Good is better than evil because it's nicer
--Mammy Yokum
  •  
scottwilkins

Messages: 652
Karma: 7
Send a private message to this user
The "Clients" can be a bit confusing.

"Kerio Client" is the web mail part. It's built in, nothing special needed.
"KOFF" or "Kerio Outlook Connector, Offline Edition" is the cached version of the plug-in for Outlook.
"KOC" or "Kerio Outlook Connector, Online Edition" is the non-cached version. This version was said to be discontinued a while back, but they keep it around due to MS Terminal Server situations. Also, with a fast mail server storage setup, and fast network sometimes the KOC version just works better. I personally don't use it any more though.
There is a chance your may run into problems with your ERP software. I did once with Kerio, but it did work out after some tweaking. Outlook just doesn't like multiple plug-ins fighting for the same resources at times. The best solution came when the ERP software I was using switched to a web format. We were able to remove the TS solution. That was a happy day Smile

BTW, SBS 2011 won't be sold any more, but will be supported for quite some time. So you have plenty of time to research.

[Updated on: Wed, 28 August 2013 14:52]

  •  
Maerad

Messages: 158
Karma: 31
Send a private message to this user
Thanks for the answers so far!

AFAIK the new ERP uses the MAPI and no special ADD-INS that could conflict with anything. Basically it's just needed to send printed offers per mail.

TS with KOFF shouldn't be a problem, not so many users (~10 at the same time) and enough space. RAM is even less a problem. Sadly, we use Office 2010 - but a downgrade would be possible. And we have a full 1 GB switched network, so that shouldn't be a problem too (and if, that's what port mirroring is for Smile)

Well, this weekend I'll setup a 2010 testserver, get some stuff from exchange to kerio and will try out some things. Could be interesting.
  •  
spretender

Messages: 3
Karma: -4
Send a private message to this user
Our IT Consultant insisted from the start that we install Kerio Connect on our new (June 2012) Outlook mailserver.

Kerio Connect is very, very expensive. Renewal plus 13 users cost me NINE THOUSAND SOUTH AFRICAN RANDS last June! FMG...

Kerio Connect has REMOVED functionality from our Outlook client users (e.g. out of office and other rules), so whenever we want a RULE created, we have to phone the IT company, who charge us money to do it FOR us, which is just plain ludicrous, and so "email rules" are basically forbidden at this company because we refuse to pay IT to come and click six buttons for us, which is not unreasonable.

Kerio Connect keeps "falling over" and things go horribly wrong, and we have to "re-sync" our employees' mailboxes, during which process, emails go missing, attachments get dropped, and entire email folders just fricken disappear. Although the "Re-sync has started" message says that if you close Outlook it will just continue where it left off when you open Outlook again - trust me!!! When Kerio Connect is "re-syncing" your mailbox, FOR GODZAKES DO NOT TO CLOSE OUTLOOK!!!! In fact just leave the dam PC alone for 3 days or however long it takes to re-sync.

I am so disappointed with Kerio Connect and our gullible IT Consultant and the money Kerio Connect has cost me in licence fees and damage control, and the data that I have lost because I tried to RELY on Kerio Connect, that I just want to burst into tears. Crying or Very Sad

Thanks
SPRETENDER
  •  
Maerad

Messages: 158
Karma: 31
Send a private message to this user
spretender wrote on Wed, 15 January 2014 14:43
Our IT Consultant insisted from the start that we install Kerio Connect on our new (June 2012) Outlook mailserver.

Kerio Connect is very, very expensive. Renewal plus 13 users cost me NINE THOUSAND SOUTH AFRICAN RANDS last June! FMG...

Kerio Connect has REMOVED functionality from our Outlook client users (e.g. out of office and other rules), so whenever we want a RULE created, we have to phone the IT company, who charge us money to do it FOR us, which is just plain ludicrous, and so "email rules" are basically forbidden at this company because we refuse to pay IT to come and click six buttons for us, which is not unreasonable.

Kerio Connect keeps "falling over" and things go horribly wrong, and we have to "re-sync" our employees' mailboxes, during which process, emails go missing, attachments get dropped, and entire email folders just fricken disappear. Although the "Re-sync has started" message says that if you close Outlook it will just continue where it left off when you open Outlook again - trust me!!! When Kerio Connect is "re-syncing" your mailbox, FOR GODZAKES DO NOT TO CLOSE OUTLOOK!!!! In fact just leave the dam PC alone for 3 days or however long it takes to re-sync.

I am so disappointed with Kerio Connect and our gullible IT Consultant and the money Kerio Connect has cost me in licence fees and damage control, and the data that I have lost because I tried to RELY on Kerio Connect, that I just want to burst into tears. Crying or Very Sad
Honestly - hit your IT Consultant. We have Kerio Connect running with 25 Users and Outlook (2010) with Kerio Connector on two Terminal Servers and/or some laptops locally.

From what you told, I guess Kerio is horrible misconfigured. You need to install the Kerio Outlook Connector (dl is on the kerio website). That programm runs under your outlook installation providing sync and the rules etc. for outlook (outlook is closed source from microsoft, so only they know how to connect it directly to an exchange server). In outlook you have a new tab called "Kerio Connect" with options and under Email a new ribbon with a link to rules, spam marking etc. Important is, that the ususal Outlookrules work, but only when outlook is started. If you want the rules on the server, you have to do it with the Kerio Connect Ribbon > Options > Rules. Might be it's different with the actuall version, didn't try it with 8.2.2. The out of office thing is also there.

Then again, why don't you admin the Kerio Server yourself?! It's easy as fuck... really. If you EVER had to config exchange and now have kerio, it's like different worlds. They have a great documentation and the admin interface is really easy to understand and use. And for the most time, you don't even need to login. I guess you get/got really screwed by the consultant, leaving the admin in their hands. Wish I could demonstate you the admin system from kerio - I guarantee that you will hit yourseld in the face...(or better the consultant)

And for the costs.... Exchange is EXPENSIVE. The server licence costs around 400-600 €, also you need CAL for every client connection (guess around 20€ each). But this without antivirus and antispam - and those are expensive for exchange too. Antispam is build in in kerio (good one) and antivir can be done on a cheap way too (with clamAV) or you just buy the better Kerio Licence and use the build in sophos antivir.

Also, when you want to use exchange as an "abo" system, you have to buy the even more expensive open licence versions and ~33% of the total price for the new versions every year. I calculated it against kerio and kerio was cheaper (with antivir and active synce licence) then exchange naked. Another important thing was, that exchange is hard to config and harden, you need to have someone knowing what he does.

Exchange can be used from companys with 5 or 50000 ppl, running more then just mail access (Unified Messaging Server) on a clustered, disaster proven enviremoment with servers all over the world connect tru WAN etc. Thus it has more possibilties but is also WAY more complex.

Kerio can be administrated by almost everyone with a bit help from an it pro in the beginning. Heck, my colleague here without any real IT knowledge can config the users etc. without problems.

The only downside I had so far was a problem with the public folders, where we put out mails from the main address (info<_at_>) into. After I took all ppl the admin rights for the root folder (problem was some deleted the main folder by mistake, killing the sync and made me do a resync on all accounts using this public folder) and just gave them admin rights for the foldes under the main one, all problemns vanished over night.
  •  
spretender

Messages: 3
Karma: -4
Send a private message to this user
Sadly, in this country, I spend so much time picking the slack behind my AA colleagues, I don't have time to do things like this myself. I wish I did. Being the only white male in this firm, I am the plumber, the electrician, the gardener and I do IT damage control whenever is fast and simple enough. I am pretty sure that if I put some time into sifting to FAQ webpages and user manuals and forums that I would have our email and network running sooooo beautifully. I just don't have the time to do EVERYTHING!!

POINT : Outlook rules DO NOT WORK AT ALL under Kerio Connect, not even at startup. I promise. As you said, the rules need to be on the server, which reiterates my point that our users' Outlook functionality has been removed.

POINT: If Kerio has the best spam control, then best you put it on the shelf until you can get it to work properly. In the last 18 months, EVERY SINGLE email that Kerio has decided is "spam" was NOT spam and I have instructed our IT Consultant to completely disable the server from making any decisions that human beings should be making. I cannot afford for emails to go missing because the robot thinks it's spam, because robots cannot think. I have LOST CLIENTS because there emails weren't coming in, because of Kerio Connect's clever dem spam control.

Why does Kerio Connect have to wrest control of Outlook Rules from Outlook? Can it be disabled? Please share with me information about how to disable this.

I would rather review and delete my own spam than lose clients, thank you. Please share with me information about how to disable automatic spam control.

I think I need help to understand very well precisely what "syncing folders" MEANS and DOES and WHY. Please...

Thank you for your response.

Thanks
SPRETENDER
  •  
spretender

Messages: 3
Karma: -4
Send a private message to this user
Maerad wrote on Wed, 15 January 2014 16:19

(outlook is closed source from microsoft, so only they know how to connect it directly to an exchange server).


I don't know what that means.

Maerad wrote on Wed, 15 January 2014 16:19

Also, when you want to use exchange as an "abo" system...


I don't know what this means.

Maerad wrote on Wed, 15 January 2014 16:19

After I took all ppl the admin rights for the root folder ... all problemns vanished over night.


Please rephrase this sentence?

Thank you

Thanks
SPRETENDER
  •  
Maerad

Messages: 158
Karma: 31
Send a private message to this user
spretender wrote on Thu, 16 January 2014 07:58
Sadly, in this country, I spend so much time picking the slack behind my AA colleagues, I don't have time to do things like this myself. I wish I did. Being the only white male in this firm, I am the plumber, the electrician, the gardener and I do IT damage control whenever is fast and simple enough. I am pretty sure that if I put some time into sifting to FAQ webpages and user manuals and forums that I would have our email and network running sooooo beautifully. I just don't have the time to do EVERYTHING!!


Oh, believe me, I exactlly know how you feel. Usually I got the job for "seller with a bit it", now I'm "IT+QM/QS+electrician+housemanagement" and so on.
But with the current problems you have with kerio, a change to another server/software won't magically kill all the problems. Right now it seems you just get the water away with a bucked instead spending a bit time to close the water tab itself. Try to get a bit free time and take a closer look at this:

http://kb.kerio.com/product/kerio-connect/quick-start-with-k erio-connect-1529.html

It gives you a small, quick overview how kerio works.

After that you can take a peek at those PDF:

Administration Manual:
http://kb.kerio.com/product/kerio-connect/pdf-documentation/ kerio-connect-server-1259.html

End-User Manual:
http://kb.kerio.com/product/kerio-connect/pdf-documentation/ kerio-connect-end-user-1260.html

You should really read a bit in the End-User manual. All manuals are easy to understand - even for a no-it worker - and I believe it will answer most of your question / help you get rid of most of the problems in no time.
If you have someone else in the company with a tiny bit of IT-Knowledge - let him read the end user one with the important parts.

Quote:
POINT : Outlook rules DO NOT WORK AT ALL under Kerio Connect, not even at startup. I promise. As you said, the rules need to be on the server, which reiterates my point that our users' Outlook functionality has been removed.


You need to install the Kerio Offline Connector for outlook to work. I would suggest the following:

- Close outlook
- Open Start > System Control/Control Center (dunno how the name is under an english windows)
- Change the category in the upper right corner into "small symbols"
- open "e-Mail 32-Bit"
- Profiles > Delete all Profiles

Open the Kerio Connect integrated mail application. Simply type your mailserver adress into internet explorer/firefox/whatever, if the server is locally in you company I would suggest to open it with the internal servername, otherwise if hosted external the usual name. Let's say your server is next to you in hardware, it's name in the local network would be "OurKerioMailServer" and external for the world it would be "mail.companyname.com".
Not that important, but depending on your network, it may be, that you download to yourself over the internet connection, if you use the external server name for an internal one. Works, but with the internal name it's faster.

When you opend the kerio connect mailapp in the browser, login to your account. Then in the upper right corner theres your account name. If you click it, a menu will pop up and you have to select "integration with windows".

Here you can download the kerio connector for outlook and under the same link a small batch file (access to the batch file will ask for you user/pass again). Then install the Outlookconnector. After that's finished, just start the batchfile and it will automagically config outlook for you to run with kerio connect.

Now you should have an installation which works how it's meant to be.

Quote:
POINT: If Kerio has the best spam control, then best you put it on the shelf until you can get it to work properly. In the last 18 months, EVERY SINGLE email that Kerio has decided is "spam" was NOT spam and I have instructed our IT Consultant to completely disable the server from making any decisions that human beings should be making. I cannot afford for emails to go missing because the robot thinks it's spam, because robots cannot think. I have LOST CLIENTS because there emails weren't coming in, because of Kerio Connect's clever dem spam control.


Yeah, talk about a bad configured system...
It's all about the settings you or the it company makes. In the standard settings kerio only blocks the obivious spams - that means everything that is listed in 4+ blacklists, reacts to spam assassin in the backround and some other stuff. I had to sharpen the settings quite a bit to get rid of all spams. And after kerio running for some months I had no false-positive so far.

Did you know you can do a spam check, disable the blocking feature and just let the server mark the spam mails with something like "***SPAM***" in the mail, so you can filter it out with outlook and still look over it?
Also the spam function is quite important, because it can select/delete pishing mails. Stuff that your antivir won't see, because no virus attached, but the link in it goes to virus? And looks like a legit quote?

Turn on the standard settings for spam in kerio with dns blacklist checks, greylisting, spam repellant and spam assistant.
Then disable the mail block feature and just let kerio mark the mails it thinks it's spam. If you get spam, select the mail in outlook and in the kerio ribbon mark it as spam or demark it. Kerio learns with every spam/no-spam mail how it can differate between the two.

On a right configured system, kerio marks the mails it's unsure if it's spam and delets the ones it knows it is spam. If a user gets 200 mails per day with 150 spam mails, he wastes way too much time deciding if it's spam or not.
That way he has more time to do the important stuff like making money Smile

Quote:
Why does Kerio Connect have to wrest control of Outlook Rules from Outlook? Can it be disabled? Please share with me information about how to disable this.
I would rather review and delete my own spam than lose clients, thank you. Please share with me information about how to disable automatic spam control.
I think I need help to understand very well precisely what "syncing folders" MEANS and DOES and WHY. Please...


The problem with outlook is, that microsoft made it in a way, that only microsoft can use all features without extra programs. If you use outlook, they want you to use exchange, that's why they made it that way.
Kerio has a workaround for that with the outlook connector, but with some compromises. Like the rules - the outlookrules work, but only if outlook is opend. For rules that work on the server directlly you have to set them in the Kerio tab > options > rules.

It's a bit different, but even our ppl here got used to it.

The best thing with kerio is, that it uses official standards like CardDAV, CalDAV, IMAP etc. - that means you can use ANY client and device you want.
Question yourself - do you really need outlook? Would the integrated kerio mail enough? If you need MAPI Access (other program can send mail over the mail program) you can use the free thunderbird with lightning addon (for mail, calendar, contacts etc) or something like emclient (www.emclient.com)

And for the synchronize part ... it simply means a function keeping your data actual without downloading everything. In case of kerio, the outlook connector downloads all mails to the local outlook pc. This first sync. needs some time, but after that kerio only syncs the new stuff and things like deletes of mails etc.


From all what you wrote, I really think the problem here is not kerio, but a bad consulting or not enough consulting. There the bad config comes from. Second one would be your misunderstanding of the server and what it can do/how it works. Like the spam - telling to DISABLE the spam was (nothing personal Smile) a stupid decision. If you or the consultant had a better knowledge or/and a calm discussion about the problem, I guess you would have a better solution right now.

Read the quick start guide and a bit about the server and what it can do. You don't need to be an IT-Pro for that or try to be one. But you should know the basics, so the consultant can't screw you.
After that talk with him/the it company and make a plan how you want kerio and the clients working - write it down, projectorize it. It takes more time this way, but after the basic, good settings are made, you have a fine, running system.

Also you should get a quick schooling and access to the admin interface (if you don't have). This way you can do the basic things like new accounts by yourself and learn besides how the system works, how you can find errors if a mail from a customer won't reach you etc.

Try to be a bit cooler about that stuff. Honestly - if someone here said a customer tried to send a mail and it never reached us ... well, I never had a time where I couldn't say "not our fault". Customers lie, espacially if something goes wrong. Then they sended a mail they never had. Had this case one then more time and after a quick confrontation the problem was solved.
  •  
BudDurland

Messages: 348

Karma: 10
Send a private message to this user
I'm struggling with the claim that Kerio breaks OutLook rules. We have a mix of OutLook 2007/2010 here, using a mix of the KOFF (Kerio offline connector) and KOC (Kerio Outlook Connector). In both cases, I can pick 'Rules" off the Outlook task bar and establish client-side rules. That is, rules that only are applied after the mail is received by OutLook. On the machines with KOFF installed, I can go to the Kerio menu, choose rules, and set server-side rules. These are rules that the server applies when the mail is received, before the client (OutLook) gets a chance to see it. Client-side rules also apply when using KOFF.

[Updated on: Thu, 16 January 2014 19:12]


Good is better than evil because it's nicer
--Mammy Yokum
  •  
RogerI

Messages: 5
Karma: -4
Send a private message to this user
We've been using Kerio for around 3 or 4 years, we pay around £400 per year our 40 licenses. Prior to Kerio we used SBS (Exchange).

These are the things I like about Kerio
1. Runs just fine on a Windows 2003 virtual server with relatively low resources (2G RAM, 4 virtual processors)
2. Easy to administer
3. Very easy to set up initially
4. OK mac integration
5. Good IOS integration (I think the same is true of Android)
6. Nice web clients (you have the choice of two)

Now the bad things:
1. Windows integration is IMO horrific. The connector doesn't play nicely when your Outlook needs to connect to multiple exchange accounts and it's very resource-hungry (especially the amount of disk activity it generates). The connectors Db is prone to corruption. The connector updates are hit-and miss when you install an update on the server.
2. I think £400 per year, given that support is paid on top of that (except for the first two support tickets), is quite steep
3. Compared to other software we have purchased, I find Kerio support not quite up-to-scratch
4. Built-in backups are kludgy IMO
5. One bug (an error where the message already exists) has no documentation and to fix it we will need to use one of our free tickets or pay for support. It's their attitude to support which sucks.

In a nutshell, Kerio was/is a better solution for us than Exchange.

Regarding the rules, we generally advise our staff to handle them in the webmail client. Seems to work fine.

Because of the (horrific IMO) Outlook connector for Exchange and the £400 per year fees, we've recently begun to evaluate other solutions. So far the solution that's caught our interest is Sogo and Openchange, mainly because of the native Exchange (MAPI) connectivity which doesn't require connectors to be installed. The MAPI protocol documentation has been available for a few years now (something about the EU forcing MS to release the documentation).

At this stage the evaluation of Zentyal and other OpenChange/Sogo implementations is going well, and we're tipped slightly in favour of changing.

Two things would stop us from evaluating other products at this stage and sticking with Kerio:
1. Get rid of the connector and implement proper MAPI protocol
2. Improve support and Kerio staff to become more active on forums
Previous Topic: Hundreds of Archive errors
Next Topic: update from 7.3.2 to 8.2 (as of dec.2013)
Goto Forum:
  


Disclaimer:
Kerio discussion forums are intended for open communication between forum members and may contain information and material posted by members which may be useful in learning about Kerio products. The discussion forums are not intended to provide technical support for any specific product. Any information implied or expressed in the discussion forums is that of the posting member. Kerio is in no way responsible for the information posted in the forums, or its accuracy. Kerio employees may participate in the discussions, but their postings do not represent an offical position of the company on any issues raised or discussed. Kerio reserves the right to monitor and maintain the forums to promote free and accurate exchange of information.

Current Time: Sun Aug 20 04:10:01 CEST 2017

Total time taken to generate the page: 0.00526 seconds
.:: Contact :: Home ::.
Powered by: FUDforum 3.0.4.