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lucb

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Well well well...
First impression is 'Woaw that's nice'
Second is 'hey previous version was so more simple and intuitive to use (no right click to do, no drop down menu, no selection of message by mouse and shift, ... )'
Third is 'nice a calendar and task sharable'
Fourth is 'slow on the intranet'
Fith is 'too slow and unacceptable for the extranet (10 sec to open the write new email window)'
Six is 'my god where is the french interface?'

I think it's a nice product but Kerio try too much to look and act like classical email software and it's a pity for a webmail.
Webmail must easy to understand, to use, fast to load and act and it's no more the case.
Previous version was usable quiet easly even by not IT-minded people (they're 95% of my users here) this one is not and I can't give them access to it. All was happy to leave Outlook for the Webmail (easy (just have to read the screen for all) and fast they told all). If I deploy the one I'll go back to the old time of outlook except that I'll replace questions about Outlook by questions about webmail.
I suggest maybe to come back to something similar (for the interface) to the old one, or at least like "yahoo mail/calendar/task", "squirrelmail" with check box, and buttons.
Fast and simple, fast and simple, fast and simple...
Until that I'll stay with Kerio5 and his nice webmail and if the requierement for sharing task and calendar become too heavy and without change of Kerio6 (for the webmail and french interface), I'll move to other products for all (mail, task, calendar) or at least for groupware fonctionnality.

Luc Bosman (Kerio manager for 90 users)
Firemen departement of Liege city - Belgium
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Crouze

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Hi all,


I've been following the progress of v6 for a while now, and despite the disappointment of the encrypted PHP pages in the final release, I'm glad v6 is now production-ready...with growing pains and all but that was to be expected.

Contrary to Luc I like the new webmail interface, and so do others who I have made acquainted with it. People generally appreciate the Outlook-like look and feel, webmail is now not a whole different interface but sort of the same interface "on the road" as these users are already used to in the office with Outlook. I your users can't handle some right clicks and what have you got more...well maybe it's time to start educating your people. There are some hopeless cases in my organisation too but most of them are quite adept and do manage the odd drag-and-drop.

Luc is more than right on another front though: the speed is horrible :-( Outlook is not as fast as it used to be but in my case it's not a real problem. Webmail over the intranet is marginal...webmail over the extranet is horrible! The people at Kerio really must work hard on that to make v6 a real succes, it might even be a make or break thing in my view. Hopefully there are some improvements in future releases (too early to ask for in v6.0.1 ?).

A choice of webmail interfaces sounds like a good idea. Many people would welcome a "lite" interface comparable to the old webmail, even if it means forsaking the tasks and calendar. What do you say Kerio, two radio buttons on the login page and re-instation of the old webmail as a lite alternative interface too much to ask?

I'm sure the French translation will be available soon. You can already find dictionaries in all imaginable languages on the internet, just slide them into the MySpell folder. I couldn't wait for a Dutch translation so I did the translation myself. If anyone is interested I'm willing to share.

That's all for now, I'm gonna sit and wait for 6.0.1 now ;-)


Cheers,
Marco
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bperkins

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I along with my organization feel the same way..........

We love everyhthing about the webmail, except for the speed! Support has told me that there is some speed optimization in 6.0.1 that's coming out today, but I don't expect a huge improvement since this is the first release since 6.0.0. I'm sure they will continue to work on the speed....I have faith in Kerio :-)

BP


>
> Hi all,
>
>
> I've been following the progress of v6 for a while now, and despite the
> disappointment of the encrypted PHP pages in the final release, I'm glad v6
> is now production-ready...with growing pains and all but that was to be
> expected.
>
> Contrary to Luc I like the new webmail interface, and so do others who I
> have made acquainted with it. People generally appreciate the Outlook-like
> look and feel, webmail is now not a whole different interface but sort of
> the same interface "on the road" as these users are already used to in the
> office with Outlook. I your users can't handle some right clicks and what
> have you got more...well maybe it's time to start educating your people.
> There are some hopeless cases in my organisation too but most of them are
> quite adept and do manage the odd drag-and-drop.
>
> Luc is more than right on another front though: the speed is horrible :-(
> Outlook is not as fast as it used to be but in my case it's not a real
> problem. Webmail over the intranet is marginal...webmail over the extranet
> is horrible! The people at Kerio really must work hard on that to make v6 a
> real succes, it might even be a make or break thing in my view. Hopefully
> there are some improvements in future releases (too early to ask for in
> v6.0.1 ?).
>
> A choice of webmail interfaces sounds like a good idea. Many people would
> welcome a "lite" interface comparable to the old webmail, even if it means
> forsaking the tasks and calendar. What do you say Kerio, two radio buttons
> on the login page and re-instation of the old webmail as a lite alternative
> interface too much to ask?
>
> I'm sure the French translation will be available soon. You can already find
> dictionaries in all imaginable languages on the internet, just slide them
> into the MySpell folder. I couldn't wait for a Dutch translation so I did
> the translation myself. If anyone is interested I'm willing to share.
>
> That's all for now, I'm gonna sit and wait for 6.0.1 now ;-)
>
>
> Cheers,
> Marco
>
>
>
>



  •  
lucb

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> office with Outlook. I your users can't handle some right >clicks and what
> have you got more...well maybe it's time to start educating >your people.

There is 4 year I say that but management refuse to spend time and money for that.
Just to fix the context, we're 2 IT to nearly 80 pcs, 5 servers and around 100 users.
On that 100 users, 95% are firefighters with an education level very low and in this 95% 60% are aged around 50 years old so with an interest for IT very limited and a education very very low (school until their 15).
So, when they use a comp, they don't want to seek, click, read a help and so on, computer/software just have to work that's all. So if you want good result with them you need very simple and immediate interface like the old webmail was. If not they'll be very reluctant to use it and even will show very high unwillingness.
The new is nice, very outlook as you said but just not usable for them without a very heavy IT staff implication, thing not possible.
Again I suggest to look at yahoo: Same fonctionality than kerio but a more immediate interface and lighter.

Luc
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Crouze

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Luc,

I think you'd agree with me that a "lite" webmail interface, comparable to the old webmail, as a alternative choice on the login page is not such a bad idea. That way users can choose whether they want the full Outlook lookalike, or a simpler interface with maybe not all the functionality there. Also a handy option if you happen to be stuck with a slow connection. Sounds to me like the best of both worlds...

Just a thought though, it all depends on Kerio's vision (and maybe the number of moaners :-P )

Cheers,
Marco
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jonbrain

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It all depends on your organisation. My users demand the functionality of Outlook / Outlook Webmail, and apart from the speed absolutely love Kerio Webmail. There are few which still want to use Outlook but a number have switched over to just using webmail.

I don't want to sound patronising buy shouldn't you give your users more credit. Surely a lot of them will have computers at home and have used programs like Outlook Express? Right clicking and holding down shift to select mutliple options are used in all major applications on the windows platform.

For me I just want the stabablility, speed and the annoying bugs in Outlook sorting out.

Lets give Kerio some credit when these problems are sorted out the software is incredibly good value for money, an administators dream (especially if your are used to Exchange) and full of features.
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jshaw541

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jonbrain wrote on Thu, 12 August 2004 07:24


Lets give Kerio some credit when these problems are sorted out the software is incredibly good value for money, an administators dream (especially if your are used to Exchange) and full of features.


I'd have to stop and agree here. For all the little woes, gripes, and bugs that have cropped up in KMS 6, it's to be expected. It was a drastically new product.

Kerio still has the best (and responsive, thanks Jeff W. & Max!) support I've seen from a vendor and their products are well-designed and solid.

And again, for those of you looking for a "lite" interface, I urge you to give Squirrelmail a try. It seems to work fine with KMS. In fact, most of our webmail users currently use Squirrelmail until the speed issues with the new webmail are worked out.

Kerio MailServer 6.7.1 w/AD
Windows Server 2003 SP 1
Dell PowerEdge 2850 (Dual Xeon 3.2ghz and 2 GB RAM)
~1300 users
~1000+ concurrent IMAPS connections
iPhone users
Outlook 2007 KOFF users
Apple iCal 10.5/10.6 users
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lucb

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Crouze wrote on Thu, 12 August 2004 16:23

I think you'd agree with me that a "lite" webmail interface, comparable to the old webmail, as a alternative choice on the login page is not such a bad idea. That way users can choose whether they want the full Outlook lookalike, or a simpler interface with maybe not all the functionality there. Also a handy option if you happen to be stuck with a slow connection. Sounds to me like the best of both worlds...
Cheers,
Marco



Yes but a lite one supporting calendar, task and shared folders.
Again and again something more yahoo than outlook.

Luc
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lucb

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jonbrain wrote on Thu, 12 August 2004 16:24


I don't want to sound patronising buy shouldn't you give your users more credit. Surely a lot of them will have computers at home and have used programs like Outlook Express? Right clicking and holding down shift to select mutliple options are used in all major applications on the windows platform.



I think you didn't very well understand my users:
- age around 50 years
- scolartity limited to 15 years
- no interest for IT
so no pc at home but PS2 lol
Even in Word they don't understand that you can right click on a word. They just know and (sometimes) understand what they can read in a menu.

A single question... If all of you like so much the Outlook look and way of use, why not stay in Outlook using MAPI? You'll have the look and mail will stay on the server and even slow connection will be enough.

Luc
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lucb

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jshaw541 wrote on Thu, 12 August 2004 17:23


Kerio still has the best (and responsive, thanks Jeff W. & Max!) support I've seen from a vendor and their products are well-designed and solid.

And again, for those of you looking for a "lite" interface, I urge you to give Squirrelmail a try. It seems to work fine with KMS. In fact, most of our webmail users currently use Squirrelmail until the speed issues with the new webmail are worked out.


I agree fully with your first point. I really like all aspects of kerio even the new webmail (except speed naturaly) but in my organisation, the new interface is way too IT minded. My people are not, they have to read clear message on button to know what to do.
I'm sure it could be easy to profide an interface somewhere between the old and the new just by adding clear buttons for current action (move, delete, reply, forward, ...) and checkbox to select messages.
Concerning Squirrelmail, I don't have time and budget to setup a new server with linux/apache/perl/php just to have a lite webmail interface (without calendar). If the only solution is a issue like this, I'll spend a little extra time to set up
www.opengroupware.org (with kerio as MAPI mail server if possible). I'll find all the functionnality requiered in it. I bought Kerio because I miss time to compile and setup solution like Squirrel or OpenGroupware and had a old NT server just powerful enough to run it. I really really like Kerio and do lot of promotion around it everywhere I can but if the product don't reply anymore to my needs, I'll have to drop some parts of it and maybe all of it and find other solutions.
Don't worry, I'll not move to Exchange Server. Have I already said that I have no time and budget? lol ;-)

Luc
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jonbrain

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I obviously didn't understand your user base, appologies for this. They sound a lot of work :)

I think it all depends on which Market Kerio are going for, standard users or very basic users. Ideally they can go for both, ie have two versions of the webmail. This would also be useful for users on a low connection.

Maybe Kerio could look at adapting a version of Squirel Mail. This would cut development costs.

The reason I would prefer my users to use webmail instead of Outlook is a web browser is free, Outlook isn't.

[Updated on: Fri, 13 August 2004 08:59]

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sonofcolin

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I've installed 6.0.1

Here are my speed test results:

1. Server = G5 OSX 10.3.4 with 2GB RAM on 1.5/768 DSL
2. Connecting with Powerbook G4 using 56k modem.
3. Server hosted in USA, connecting from Moscow.

Login page in Firefox takes 40 seconds to load.
Login completed after 70 seconds.

Speed improvements??
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jshaw541

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lucb wrote on Thu, 12 August 2004 23:26


... way too IT minded. My people are not, they have to read clear message on button to know what to do.



Same here. Most of our people are absolutely clueless (and I mean that in a most respectful way ;) when it comes to technology. If I had the choice between the new interface and the old, I'd go for the old.

Quote:


Concerning Squirrelmail, I don't have time and budget to setup a new server with linux/apache/perl/php just to have a lite webmail interface (without calendar).



Neither do I. I set up Squirrelmail and PHP under IIS. First I installed PHP, then I installed Squirrelmail. Took about a half hour to install and do a basic configuration of everything.



Kerio MailServer 6.7.1 w/AD
Windows Server 2003 SP 1
Dell PowerEdge 2850 (Dual Xeon 3.2ghz and 2 GB RAM)
~1300 users
~1000+ concurrent IMAPS connections
iPhone users
Outlook 2007 KOFF users
Apple iCal 10.5/10.6 users
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bperkins

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The speed is still not where I would like it to be, but I do seem to notice a little improvement in 6.0.1.

BP

>
> I've installed 6.0.1
>
> Here are my speed test results:
>
> 1. Server = G5 OSX 10.3.4 with 2GB RAM on 1.5/768 DSL
> 2. Connecting with Powerbook G4 using 56k modem.
> 3. Server hosted in USA, connecting from Moscow.
>
> Login page in Firefox takes 40 seconds to load.
> Login completed after 70 seconds.
>
> Speed improvements??
>
>
>



mitch

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I just want to back up what everyone else is saying here. While I personally love the new interface and most of my users were very impressed at first. Almost every single one of my users has complained about the speed and requested to switch back to the old interface. Mainly this is due to speed, but also, they miss the simplicity of the old interface.

I completely agree with Crouze: a login option to select from the "Outlook interface" or "Simple Interface" would be the ultimate solution for my users; both in the long-term (for those with slow connections or who have trouble with complexity of new interface) and short-term (while speed is such a huge issue).
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