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rhunter

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Given that the problems with Outlook and the KOC seem to be ongoing, would it be possible for Kerio to write their own email client? Not Webmail, but something that works like Outlook on Exchange. They could make it do whatever it needs to do. They have the server code and could tailor the client to match it perfectly.

It seems to me that if they can develop what is obviously complex software in KMS, a mail client should be possible. It should be easier for them to support and port to whatever platform/OS they want instead of trying to second-guess what Microsoft has done with the different incarnations of Outlook that create difficulty in developing a plug-in to emulate Outlook with Exchange.

Any thoughts? Pavel?
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peterj

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Like the idea but unfortunately many of us need the compatibility of outlook as it is industry standard.

Ie. Sync'ing PDA's etc
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J-ITS

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I agree with Peter. This would be out of the question for us. Outlook is the industry standard, and that is what our employees like.
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ofer

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J-ITS wrote on Tue, 24 May 2005 19:44

I agree with Peter. This would be out of the question for us. Outlook is the industry standard, and that is what our employees like.



I don't agree with the first part of he sentence - Outlook is NOT industry standart - its Micr$oft standart - it becomes the DE-FACTO standart why ? because the emloyess like it -

I hate outlook , it's the worst e-mail client ever ,it very cumbersome . haevy , you don't have the ability to restore a single message...

Microsoft as always like to re-envent the wheel - EXCHANGE ??!!! what's the big dill ?!! , to use MAPI ???? very bad idea , writing messages in RTF ???
where did they get it from ????????

people use outlook - only because MS - just stuck it with the office suite ... that's all

if Kerio would develope an email client I trust them that it will be compatible with a lot of mail server -
like the KMS in now !!!!


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sonofcolin

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J-ITS wrote on Tue, 24 May 2005 12:44

I agree with Peter. This would be out of the question for us. Outlook is the industry standard, and that is what our employees like.


Not in our industry it isn't! Our HQ uses exchange, but no one uses Outlook (they use The Bat!). Our US dept is all Mac and uses Entourage and Mail.app

As previously stated, Outlook works very well with Exchange but is hopeless with anything else. Why re-engineer a mailserver to fit with Outlook when there are plenty of alternatives that work very well with KMS.

It appears that people are trying to fit the job to the tool rather than the other way around.
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J-ITS

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You're right. I shouldn't say it is industry standard. Rather, it is "user preferred." A good IT team realizes that half of their job is making things functional, efficient, secure, and cost-effective on the backend. But they should also realize that without the users they wouldn't have a job. We try and accomodate our users as much as possible. If everyone decided to try and improve on a mainstream program, we would be so busy installing and supporting software from small vendors, that we wouldn't have time to make things work properly anyways.

Catch 22 I guess.

Nobody likes Microsoft, but let's face it, everyone uses them.
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desquinn

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sonofcolin wrote on Wed, 25 May 2005 20:44


Not in our industry it isn't! Our HQ uses exchange, but no one uses Outlook (they use The Bat!). Our US dept is all Mac and uses Entourage and Mail.app


thats good for you
Quote:


As previously stated, Outlook works very well with Exchange but is hopeless with anything else. Why re-engineer a mailserver to fit with Outlook when there are plenty of alternatives that work very well with KMS.


I agree with the general sentiment here regarding re-engineering but I dont fully agree with the Outlook being hopeless with everything else.
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It appears that people are trying to fit the job to the tool rather than the other way around.

And this is way off base...... KMS is supplied as a Exchange replacement. It was being marketed as an Exchange 5.5 replacement, and in my experience the majority of Exchange setups have outlook as a client.

Therefore given the literature (marketing material), the exchange migration tool, and the very existence of the KOC you have to say that KMS is meant to work with OUTLOOK. The posts by kerio staff on this forum and as represented in support email clearly points towards a fully functional offline capabale KOC.

Therefore kerio should be delivering on their promises or withdrawing the KOC and remarketing their product with some truthful aims.

It is now very difficult to put any faith in kerio and anything that they say they are going to introduce in future. The 6 release has not been as problematic for me as it has for others, but the general lack of competent release testing scares the hell out of me. The misinterpretation and attempted backpedalling regarding the KOC's offline caching really does not bode well for kerio's future truthfulness.

I had 5 clients that I was going to rollout KMS to and they are now getting an SBS install instead and thats down to kerios lack of reliability rather than failings in the KMS.

Des Quinn
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sonofcolin

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Quote:


It appears that people are trying to fit the job to the tool rather than the other way around.

Quote:

And this is way off base...... KMS is supplied as a Exchange replacement. It was being marketed as an Exchange 5.5 replacement, and in my experience the majority of Exchange setups have outlook as a client.

Therefore given the literature (marketing material), the exchange migration tool, and the very existence of the KOC you have to say that KMS is meant to work with OUTLOOK. The posts by kerio staff on this forum and as represented in support email clearly points towards a fully functional offline capabale KOC.

Therefore kerio should be delivering on their promises or withdrawing the KOC and remarketing their product with some truthful aims.



The problem is that it doesn't work and people have bought KMS on a promise rather than a fully functional product. That's bad decision making any way you look at it, especially when you can download and try out the product for 30 days. I'm not suprised that some of you are concerned regarding future employment!

I do not deny that Kerio has failed to deliver on their promises regarding KOC, but the fact remains that you can only truely judge the performance of a product that is in production. Kerio should remove the misleading tech specs of KMS from their literature and give a full explanation as to their current development status. Whether or not you belive them is up to the purchaser and they have no legal obligation to deliver anything.
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J-ITS

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desquinn

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Quote:

The problem is that it doesn't work and people have bought KMS on a promise rather than a fully functional product. That's bad decision making any way you look at it, especially when you can download and try out the product for 30 days. I'm not suprised that some of you are concerned regarding future employment!



totally agree which is why I am not at risk..... I have KMS on pilot with a very small client (5 users) after an eval period and they are happy with it at the moment. But then they are not stressing it.

On the strength of their experience and the future development I was going to be taking a further 5 clients down this route but my experience from 6.02 to date has done nothing but filled me with dread. Again the worst thing about KMS at the moment IMO is the apparent feature change (outright lie) with the KOC, and poor release testing.



Des Quinn
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tekfal23

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Just an FYI. We tested Kerio for a full 25 days before making any decisions. It worked great in our test environment. However, anyone worth a damn in IT knows a test environment is not a production environment. Throw 2000+ e-mails at a server per day and 350+users and there will be all kinds of things that pop up as opposed to just 5 IT guys testing it with 30 e-mails a day. We experienced no problems with the KOC until it was put in production. Users can always find a way to break things, intentionally or not. I'm not in fear for my job in the slightest. This software worked in a small environment. It can't seem to handle a large one. I wasn't going to test my server with all users and full functionality.
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sonofcolin

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tekfal23,

Good point and noted. I was refering more to the offline cache function of KOC.
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tekfal23

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Yeah, I would have waited on purchasing Kerio based on the offline caching solution. At least I know now what a promise is worth. I bought it based on the KOC. I wish I'd have been able to discover the issues with it before purchasing.
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ofer

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tekfal23 wrote on Thu, 26 May 2005 19:50

Throw 2000+ e-mails at a server per day and 350+users and there will be all kinds of things that pop up as opposed to just 5 IT guys testing it with 30 e-mails a day. We experienced no problems with the KOC until it was put in production. Users can always find a way to break things, intentionally or not. I'm not in fear for my job in the slightest. This software worked in a small environment. It can't seem to handle a large one. I wasn't going to test my server with all users and full functionality.


I had also to make a decision regarding replacing our mail server
My old box - was more then eight years old DIGITAL WS 400 running TRU 64 (ver 5.1) with sendmail and IMAP (UW) -
that worked fluently with NO problems at all - !!!

I've tested RH ES 4 , with postfix and CYRUS and I wasn't satisfied as well SLES 9 ..
and my final dilemma was MAC OS Server 10.3.9 or the KMS .. - when I tested KMS (both on SLES 9 and on Mac OS X server ) 6.0.9 it had very serious vulnerability that users can cause DoS on the KMS and crash it ..
I reported that to the KMS support and they fixed it on 6.0.10 !! so I've decided to purchase the KMS (running on SLES 9 )

and I very happy till now - it works out of the box - I don't see it's limit of handling large amount of message per day - I think its rather the hardware and the OS them the KMS -- I can say definitely that the KMS is running much better on Linux then Mac OS X server (not mention Windows)

so to say that KMS can't handle 2000 users .. it prejudice ..
again the problem is Outlook - !!! and not KMS .
there is much better alternative to Outlook rather to update it every month -

jonbrain

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Your missing the point. Kerio advertises the mailserver as working with Outlook and having the Groupware functionality. Using the Outlook connector is painful, until there is offline caching this will always be the case. It is painful if you only have one user never mind 2000 users.
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