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opaque

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Hi, we are considering moving over from IMail Server 8.1 to Kerio MailServer. There are a few things I would like some feedback/opinion on, though. Thanks guys!

1. How would one go about migrating user mailboxes? Is there a convertor file or anything out there?
2. We have two domains, one with about 20 users, another with about 10. Can we have separate spamfilter rules with each?
3. Is there an equivalent of the IMail client which reads the MBX files? The reason is, at the moment we have a 'spam' account where all spam from one domain is moved over to that account (we don't want individual junk mail folders since most people use POP3), and I'd like to do what I do with IMail. I go through the spam folder about once every few days, and 'transfer' false positive messages back to the user's folder. This way, they don't get the "Forwarded" prefix for mail or my name in the messages. Is there any way to do this with Kerio?
4. What file format does Kerio use to store mailboxes?
5. I noticed people in the past have complained about KMS's reliability. Has this improved since? IMail has been very reliable.

Thanks for the time guys!

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BudDurland

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We converted from iMail 8.10 to kerio back in February. We have 1 domain of about 100 users, and two other domains of 5 users or so.

Quote:

1. How would one go about migrating user mailboxes? Is there a convertor file or anything out there?


I re-created the user names manually, although the NDS import function helped a lot. Kerio does let you import from a text file too, and I know there are utilities for dumping the iMail user base to text.

We used a utility called IMAPCOPY to actually move mail from the iMail server to the kerio server. Your POP3 users don't care, since POP3 mail is not stored on the server. WebMail and IMAP users care, though, and IMAPCOPY saved me much time & grief. IMAPCOPY can be found here: http://home.arcor.de/armin.diehl/imapcopy/imapcopy.html. There were a couple gotchas with running IMAPCOPY, I can supply details if you're interested.

Quote:

2. We have two domains, one with about 20 users, another with about 10. Can we have separate spamfilter rules with each?


I don't think so. (in fact, I'm fairly certain you can't). If you are using Declude with iMail, you'll be a little disappointed -- Kerio's anti-spam is not bad, but it is not as effective as Declude. The good news is that you could set up your old iMail/Declude server as an SMTP front end for Kerio. Also, if yu encourage your users to do WebMail, they can "teach" kerio what is spam, which will make it more effective.

Quote:

3. Is there an equivalent of the IMail client which reads the MBX files?


Not that I've found. You can modify the default spam rule to forward messages to a specific account, rather than the default action of putting them in a junk mail folder. Once there, there no way that I've seen to put the messages back in the original recipient's InBox. You could also (for your POP users) simply remove the spam rule, and let Kerio annd {spam} to the message subject, then do client-side fitering and let the users do their own cleanup.

Unlike iMail, which uses a monolithic mbox-formatted file for each mailbox, Kerio uses folders that contain an individual file for each message. The files are .eml format, which is pretty much plain-text. Our experience is that this methodology improves performace, especially for IMAP/Webmail users that are storing everything on the server.

We have not had any significant reliability issues with Kerio. Once, and only once, the mail server simply stopped answering requests. I restarted the service and it've been running since. We use mostly IMAP access, but i have a growing population of users (about 20) who are using OutLook 2003 with the kerio Outlok Connector and it's working just fine (other than OutLook goofiness). I have the same number of people who are 100% webmail only, again without any problems. The WebMail client is exceptionally good.

Hope this helps.

Good is better than evil because it's nicer
--Mammy Yokum
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opaque

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Thanks for the quick response! I think I'll be heavily evaluating Kerio now! IMail has really gone stale over the past year.

Is there anything you did before in IMail that you can't do anymore?

P.S. I'm interested in your IMapcopy gotcha's... =OP

And btw, would you have any tips/tricks for migrating but keeping one server? I don't think IMail listens to binding to one IP (our main server has 4 - we lease it from a provider so yeah no test machines for that). So could I install Kerio onto the existing imail system, but run it on different ports for imapcopy, then bring it back (or vice versa; i.e. have Ipswitch on different ports and delete imail after)?

Also, how much branding does Kerio give its Web interfaces? can we remove this? I find it much better if I remove branding (I know ethical questions but security-wise if someone hasn't seen the interfacce they won't know its Kerio and won't start finding exploits for Kerio - the same goes for showing version numbers)

[Updated on: Thu, 28 July 2005 06:03]


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opaque

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Oh two more questions:

Does Kerio Webmail support non-SSL as well as SSL connections like Imail's web messaging?

How did you transfer the user's webmail address books over?

[Updated on: Thu, 28 July 2005 12:14]


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BudDurland

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This thing I miss most about iMail is the ability to run Declude Anti-Spam; it truly is best of breed. However, we did install a small server with VamSoft's ORF (http://www.vamsoft.com) and we're having very good results for not very much money.

The other things I miss are the clunky alias management interface, no true mail groups, mysterious mailbox corruption, and brain-dead web mail.

I'd sneak up on the concept of a single server migration. iMail is greedy, taking control of all IP addresses in the box. Kerio lets you bind and IP to a specific domain, but it could get messing mucking about with non-default ports & etc. There's also a space issue. In your shoes, I'd try this:

1. Pick a time when the mail server can be down for a couple hours.

2. From within the iMail manager, do a backup of the User base

3. Shutdown and disable all iMail services on the mail server

4. Disconnect the mail server from the internet (the idea is to not allow any incoming mail reach the server.

5. Install Kerio. Configure your domains, users, anti-spam, etc.

6. Pick a workstation. Install iMail to it. Copy the iMail folder from the old mail server to the workstation. Do a restore of the user back from the backup file you created earlier.

7. Configure and run IMAPCOPY to copy messages from the workstation running iMail to the kerio server.

8. Reconnect to the internet. New mail will come in to the Kerio server.

9. Miller time.

The initial login to he Kerio WebMail interface has a big ol' Kerio Webmail logo, and I've not found out how to change it. Once logged in, the smaller logo can changed out for one of your choosing (only one, for all domains). In practice, I don't believe there's much security to be gained by hiding brand names and version numbers, although the corporate branding advantage is obvious.

I don't thinkn there's any good way to transfer WebMail address books, although I didn't look at it too hard. If iMail has an address bood export function, there's a possibility it can be done.

[Updated on: Thu, 28 July 2005 16:06]


Good is better than evil because it's nicer
--Mammy Yokum
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BudDurland

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Running IMAPCOPY to migrate messages from one server to another

This is based on my experiences, YMMV

The IMAPCOPY executable runs from a command prompt; don't just double click it, you'll miss any error messages it produces. After setting up the CFG file, at the command prompt, just type IMAPCOPY and away it goes. If you use the command "IMAPCOPY -?", it will list the options for the program.

Here's how I did our conversion:

First I tested with just one user account in the CFG file. I chose mine, because I have a fairly large message store and it would be easy for me to log into the new mail server and whack everything to run another test. You may actually end up running the IMAPCOPY program several times. When I did our conversion, IMAP COPY was trying to make the deepest level sub-folders first. This fails, of course, because the parent folder isn't there (i.e., you can't create "INBOX\Stuff1\Stuff2" without creating "INBOX\Stuff1" first).

1) run IMAPCOPY -t

This just proves that the user ID's and passwords in the CFG file are correct, and the server will allow an IMAP login. Of course, if this fails, you can't go any farther.

2) run IMAPCOPY -0 -e

This does the copy process, but only creates folders; it does not actually copy any messages. During this process, there may be some errors; these are the from the issue I discussed earlier about the program creating the deepest folders first. The good news is that the program will create the "top" level folder. So, if there were errors, run "IMAPCOPY -0 -e" again. There may be errors, but there should be fewer of them. This is because the now that the "top" level folder exists, the 2nd level folder can be created. On the next pass, the third level folder, and so on.

Keep re-running "IMAPCOPY -0 -e" until there are no more errors. That means all the folders have been successfully created.

3) run IMAPCOPY

This will actually copy the messages from one server to the other.

Once the copy is done, log in to the new mail (GW) server and confirm that all your messages were copied over. If that all went well, modify the CFG file to include all the other user names and passwords (and take yours out, your messages are already copied -- otherwise, you'll end up with two copies of all your messages), and go back to step 1.


Good is better than evil because it's nicer
--Mammy Yokum
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opaque

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Thanks for the advice! We lease a dedicated server from a datacenter so it might not be easy to install it on a separate datacenter. Maybe I should have IMail running on different ports, then install Kerio, then IMAP over the mail?

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opaque

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I think I've found a solution for checking the spambox. It's not 100% what it used to be i.e. I can't tell if a message is bad from a list but oh well.

I can go through the spambox eml files from the spam account, and manually mvoe false positives back (I used to do this with messages from the IMail client). Then I can delete the fld index file from Kerio.

Now my question is, can someone give me an example of a EML filename kerio uses? Would it be okay just to move it back?

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opaque

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Okay I've started migration. Three questions:

1. How can I get Kerio to send email to specific mailboxes? With Imail, user-folder<_at_>domain.com would autoamtically send the message to USER's FOLDER. The same goes for logging on via POP. I need this for GPRS phone users. IMail did this: http://support.ipswitch.com/kb/IM-20021105-DM01.htm

2. Can I get the web interface to default to the domain? Say I have mail.domain1.com and mail.domain2.com, where domain1 is the active domain. How can I set it so that when i go to Http://mail.domain2.com, I don't have to enter username<_at_>mail.domain2.com, but just username?

3. How do I see a user's last logon date?

[Updated on: Fri, 29 July 2005 18:07]


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peterj

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1) Not sure what you mean

2) Just make it the primary domain (Click "Set as primary" in the domain list in the admin) The KMS will assume this domain suffix when one is not given at logon.

3) Go to the user list and click statistics. You will be shown various info re sizes of mailboxes etc including the last logons of each user by protocol.

HTH

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opaque

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Peter, Thanks for your reply!

1) I'm migrating from Imail and here is an Ipswitch document about this: http://support.ipswitch.com/kb/IM-20021105-DM01.htm (Imail supported this) - of course, this works at a lower priority than usernames with hyphens.

"To logon to a specific sub-mailbox add the mailbox name to your userid. (If a user erics has a sub-mailbox spam he can login with erics-spam as the userid.) Use erics-spam<_at_>domain.com if you are logging into an "IP-less" virtual domain."

2) IMail Web messaging would read the host header of the domain i.e. if I log onto http://mail.notprimarydomain.com/ it would default accounts to that notprimarydomain.com (and you enter <_at_>domain.com for all others).

3) Thanks! Never noticed that! Is there any way to view these statistics with the web interface?

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peterj

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1) I like the sound of this feature, I've never seen the ability to use POP3 to logon to any folder other than the Inbox. Unfortunately I'm fairly sure this cannot be done with KMS

2) Another nice feature - I don't think you can do this in KMS either... (Why are you switching again??)

3) The statistics aren't available in the webadmin - however the webadmin is very new so I expect Kerio to be making more functionality available here soon.

[Updated on: Sun, 31 July 2005 11:25]

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opaque

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[quote title=peterj wrote on Sun, 31 July 2005 17:25]Why are you switching again??)quote]

IMail is aged; we need a more up to date solution.. IMail's antispam features are primitive and were only added in recent years. There's no way to get it to 'learn', or to have rules that add to a 'rating' when certain words are found. Ipswitch has neglected IMail standalone and is forcing us to upgrade to the Imail collaboration suite. We are worried that this slow development would put us at risk since vulnerabilities may not be patched in time. We also need a better more user-friendly interface for webmail - Kerio seems to do the job quite well.

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dontask

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peterj wrote on Sun, 31 July 2005 11:25



2) Another nice feature - I don't think you can do this in KMS either... (Why are you switching again??)



Its in the Domain area, under Advanced.. .you select Bind IP address to this domain.. very similar to how its done in IMail. How else would you expect the mail server to know which domain its supposed to attach to the user name??

Of course.. as you probably know, this would require changes to the DNS record for the affected domain..
BudDurland

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Quote:

Its in the Domain area, under Advanced.. .you select Bind IP address to this domain.. very similar to how its done in IMail. How else would you expect the mail server to know which domain its supposed to attach to the user name??


This doesn't work in Kerio's WebMail (at least, not on my 6.0.10 server). I have all my domains on their own IP addresses. For POP & IMAP, I get the domain corresponding to the IP address. For WebMail, any domain other than the primary domain requires '<_at_>domainname.com' for login.

Quote:

To logon to a specific sub-mailbox add the mailbox name to your userid. (If a user erics has a sub-mailbox spam he can login with erics-spam as the userid.


To me, this is inefficient. Sub-mailboxes are very much counter-intuitive to POP3 access. If you have users that want to do this, I strongly recommend converting them to IMAP access. Message sorting into specific mail boxes can be done very effectively with server side rules. Easier for you, easier for them.

Good is better than evil because it's nicer
--Mammy Yokum
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