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HidS

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Hi all,

I just moved over to using KMS. I was previously using Outlook PSTs for my users (about 65) but wanted to move over to a server based program that allowed Webmail and KMS seemed perfect. My alternative was Exchange obviously but it would have been at least 3 times more expensive.

My feelings are this:

If you are starting off with nothing whatsoever, then I'm pretty sure KMS will work for you quite nicely.

However, if u are transferring a lot of PSTs, bear this in mind.

The KOC is rather unstable if u are using it to transfer PSTs.

It seems to have a bug where it won't allow u to transfer more than 512 pieces of mail in any subfolder. I have logged this with support and they are 'looking into it'.
http://support.kerio.com/index.php?_a=tickets&_m=listvie w&_i=DOY-57768

So what I have to do is make a copy of their pst and split any folder with more than 512 pieces of mail into multiple folders and move mail around. Pain in the bottom.

Also, before u import, make sure that your users have not used the / in any of their folder names. Sometimes KOC transfers it ok, but most of the time, it will crash.

Your users will also complain that webmail does not have popup notification for new mail. I have installed this piece of freeware and it works dandy. http://www.yoursurfice.com/Content/Poppy/Poppy.htm

If your users have a large mailbox (ie more than 300 mb or have more than a few hundred in any one folder), the webmail performance is SLLOOOWWW (even over LAN). The webmail lite is nice but it doesn't have enuf features. For them, I have set up Outlook with KOC, which works nicely and is a lot faster.

In general tho, once it is working (I have transferred about 80% of my users to KMS now), it seems pretty good and once my users start using webmail, I'm sure they will see the benefits.

So, in conclusion:

1) Software itself seems ok especially if u start from afresh.
2) If you are transferring loads of PSTs, prepare yourself for mega-headaches.
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winkelman

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Quote:

It seems to have a bug where it won't allow u to transfer more than 512 pieces of mail in any subfolder

I can move as many messages as I like (in one go) from folder to folder with the KOC. (I only use the KOC, so maybe your problem is a combination of KOC and pst-files.)

What I did notice is that if I move, say, 700 messages and then go to the target folder, lots of times it will report (in the bottom left) only 200 messages, while I did move all 700. Quiting and restarting Outlook and all is fine.

Quote:

Your users will also complain that webmail does not have popup notification for new mail.

Yes, I (and, more important, my users) would love a 'new mail popup' in Webmail! And it should not be too difficult to implement, since there are already popup warnings for appointments. I cannot use a seperate POP3 checker, since here all PC's are shared and I don't want any user-specific client configurations (as filling in account-info in the popup checker).
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peterj

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I tend to agree that if you are moving from a POP3 based system with no collaboration or webmail you will love KMS & the admin is great.

Unfortunately I suspect there aren't many satisfied customers amongst those moving from exchange.

I can't remember speaking to anyone on this forum who had exchange and thinks KMS/KOC is better. (Cheaper I grant you)

Pleeeeeeezzzz fix the KOC problems
(Mail hangs in outbox & crashes frequently)
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abubin

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I myself was from winroute pro. We were then looking for upgrade to a better mailserver software that can handle more complicated tasks like KOC. We finalised our candidates to KMS and Merakmailserver (MMS). We opted for KMS due to it's KOC feature. But since buying KMS, we decided not to use KOC until it is stable enough for our standards. Imagine the pain when you buy something expecting to use it but it does not work properly.

Since, there aren't any happy Exchange to KMS users, are there any MMS to KMS users?
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HidS

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Well, oddly enuf, AFTER struggling like a madman converting the PSTs, KOC seems ok to me.

I don't have any of the hang ups and really slow performance that other people have been complaining about.

It's picked up all my shared contacts, mail, no probs.

I'm down to my last 12 PSTs to convert now... I reckon about another 10 hours and I am fully transferred to KMS!!!

I'm then gonna open up my mail server to the internet and then try webmail across internet and also Blackberry.. omg, my company finally enters the 21st century.....

I have to say, I think the product is not bad at all and looking at the relatively low number of complaints for a product like this, I think most people are ok with it.

Besides, it's about 5 times cheaper than Exchange Enterprise and I'd be amazed if Exchange is five times better.

I think Exchange would be ace if money is no concern to your company but if you are in a company like mine, which is somewhere between small and large, where you require a feature-rich mail system but don't really wanna spend $10k on Exchange, this is a rather good alternative.
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peterj

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Give it some time....

When you have had messages sticking in the outbox for three months and constant FB/PVF crashes in Outlook

When users complain they cannot sort or group their tasks/contacts or notes

When mailboxes cannot be synched with your PDA's

When you are sitting waiting for the Outlook/KOC to scroll through your folder containing 300 messages (10 at a time)

When your integrated AV is giving you constant error messages...

When you have to re-index users mailboxes all the time. (Especially if users connect with multiple versions of outlook.)

When you discover that voting buttons and meeting requests don't function as they should.

When you get blank message bodies in webmail.

When your users setup Outlook message rules that don't work or get lost..!

Then maybe you'll change your mind.
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nickrooster

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Quote:

When you have ... constant FB/PVF crashes in Outlook


I can't say anything about messages getting stuck in the outbox. It has happened off and on since 6.0.1. However, the FB/PVF crashes only started happening in 6.1, and from what I understand, one of the patches fixes these issues.

Quote:

When your integrated AV is giving you constant error messages...


Never have constant error messages with the integrated McAfee. Perhaps you mean with Symantec?

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When you have to re-index users mailboxes all the time. (Especially if users connect with multiple versions of outlook.)


I have honestly never had to re-index any of my users' mailboxes. Even ones that used multiple versions of Outlook. Now all my users have migrated to Thunderbird.

Quote:

When you get blank message bodies in webmail.


Haven't had this issue since KMS 6.0.3

As for everything else, I have never experienced these issues with the KOC (just lucky, I guess, and it helps that my users never really used those features of Exchange - if your users do use those things all the time and you cannot find a suitable replacement program or extension to Thunderbird or whatever, then I can see why you would have problems).

But abubin, I am a totally happy Exchange-KMS convert.
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peterj

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Sorry Nick, but you don't really count.

You don't use the Outlook/KOC/Groupware stuff which is where the problems are...

No wonder you don't have any problems if you just use Basic IMAP connectivity via T'Bird...

:-O


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nickrooster

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Quote:

Even ones that used multiple versions of Outlook.


Up until quite recently, all of my users used Outlook 2k and 2k2.

Other info:
KMS has always been run on a linux box.
Users have inboxes with over 15,000 messages in them, moving along just fine in Outlook 2k and 2k2.
The switch happened between 6.0.9 and 6.0.10 to Thunderbird.

So yes, I do have some experience with KOC.

Testing of the KOC showed me some of the areas where it differed from the competition, and armed thusly, I was able to educate my users about what could/could not be done.

I never got many complaints (occasionally users still go into Outlook to see a contact rather than look in webmail).

So yes, peterj, I guess you are right in that I am not current in my KOC issue handling. :-) But, like I said, it's not as if my users have never touched Outlook.

Issues migrating to Thunderbird from KOC were handled by additional software or extensions to Thunderbird. For ex: Tasks. I set my users up with a program called Rainlendar, which even has a nifty server plugin to store all of their tasks for backup.
There are other examples, but it is not like you don't have any options - if you are totally dissatisfied with Outlook. The point I am trying to make is that they were not totally dissatisfied. :-)
-Nick
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peterj

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In which case why did you move them to T'Bird??
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J-ITS

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hehe...
[peterj], you are always full of positive comments :)
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nickrooster

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Because I was dissatisfied with the client-side. I wanted something that was open and extendable in a way Outlook could never be. I wanted to be able to get arms-deep in mail client code to try and fix whatever problems might come my way, and you certainly cannot do that with Outlook. Also, I am working on an in-house LDAP extension and did not want to fuss with Outlook's LDAP support(?).

So, the clients were not the impetus for the change, it was stuff non-KMS server-side, and the ability to fix things if they break client-side.

Besides, I preferrede them to have an email client that at least questions if you want to run scripts and other potentially malicious objects embedded in an email.

But like I said in my previous statement, they still use Outlook occasionally.
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abubin

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what about IMAP+KMS? That is sort of equalvalent to KOC. Anyone using that?
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peterj

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'equivalent'

No shared contacts, calendar, tasks, notes, crappy (del/purge) deletion model, no SS message rules.

Unfortunately it's KOC or nothing if you need the features.
nickrooster

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Quote:

No shared contacts,


You mean like LDAP? Cause I am using that for all my users, seems to work fine. Interesting.

Quote:

calendar,


You mean like iCal - the standard that Sunbird or the Thunderbird calander extension supports?

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tasks,


True enough, you cannot do this in Thunderbird - there are however, other programs.

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notes,


You are the only person I have ever heard of using that feature. What does it do? Or not do? I have no experience with it, so I cannot recommend what works/an alternative.

Quote:

crappy (del/purge) deletion model


Standards are crappy, aren't they ;-). Works fine for my users having the inbox purge on exit. But, I'm sure it can be set to auto-purge other folders as well.

Quote:

no SS message rules.


You could write a script to sort them - if you were of the programming inclination :-). IMAP folders are actually folders in the message store. It would work, but I'm sure it would not be supported.

So, like I said, for everything but notes, there are alternatives (and maybe notes as well!).
-Nick
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