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Soup

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I've just recieved the following from one of my company directors...

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Is it possible that the email could be looked at as a matter of urgency? Given that Microsoft Outlook is used across the globe with pretty good success why can't it for us? If MAC based software is used and this is the reason it doesnt work properly and constantly crashes would it be worth rethinking the use of MAC based software, given that the majority of the office are on PC's?

Thanks.

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I've explained that it's not the mac platform that's the issue and it is infact the Kerio Outlook Connector that's causing the Outlook issues for our users. I really don't want to go back to exchange, but it's looking like the decision is going to be taken out of my hands soon unless the KOC can be made to work more reliably.

Things have been very quiet here lately so I was just wondering if there are any plans to correct these issues or if people were generally just giving up on Kerio as an Exchange alternative?

Thanks

Paul.

[Updated on: Tue, 18 October 2005 19:14]


3 x Apple Xserve G5 DP2.3
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sedell

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I think just giving up.

Scott
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peterj

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Yep, just giving up...!

...sorry
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winkelman

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In the KOC patch 8 topic it was mentioned today that all problems (for one admin) went away after he manually installed the KOC on the client PC, instead of letting the auto-update do it...

Maybe this can help some of you too?
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Kerio_jthomas

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Hi!

We feel that the Outlook Connector is one of the most important parts of our product. We have taken some major steps recently - including discontinuing two other products and reassigning developers - to improve the Outlook Connector.

However, we cannot turn everything around overnight. It is unreasonable to expect that we can fix all of the KOC problems quickly. Microsoft sets the standard; we have nowhere near the resources it uses to build Exchange and Outlook.

That said, I feel we are over the worst of the KOC problems. Please look foward to KMS/KOC 6.1.1 - which I will say is at least "soon" - to be a significant improvement.


Cheers,
Joshua

Joshua Thomas
Technical Support Manager
2350 Mission College Blvd, Suite 400
Santa Clara, CA 95054
Phone: (408) 496-4500
Fax: (408) 496-6902
http://www.kerio.com/support.html

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Soup

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Hi Joshua, thanks for that, it's nice to know that you guys are still on the case.

I'll try and hold off the boss and the rest of the guys here for a while longer - in fact I'll send around your post in the hope that it reassures them a little that things will change.

thanks

Paul.

3 x Apple Xserve G5 DP2.3
1 x Apple Xserve RAID
40ish users
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sedell

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Quote:

We have taken some major steps recently - including discontinuing two other products and reassigning developers - to improve the Outlook Connector.

This is a good thing for new/future customers, but too little too late for existing customers. We've been suffering for a year with a huge laundry list of problems. I have a user base where a majority of the users are afraid to report problems for a fear that there might be a patch to "fix" it. It's a really bad sign when your users won't talk to you, and would rather deal with the problems they are suffering rather than risk new ones.

Quote:


However, we cannot turn everything around overnight. It is unreasonable to expect that we can fix all of the KOC problems quickly.


No, it's not unreasonable to expect the problems to be fixed quickly. These are major problems that cause us, the companies that use your product, a lot of grief, lost time and productivity - AKA cost us a lot of money. Then again, if the development team could accurately identify and fix problems, the KOC would never have been released in such a poor state. I'm a programmer first, mail admin 2nd, so I know what's expected of a development team. As far as I'm concerned, your team has been completely negligent with their testing and releasing of updated versions and patches for the KOC.

Quote:


Microsoft sets the standard; we have nowhere near the resources it uses to build Exchange and Outlook.


Granted, without the vast resources Microsoft has, development should take longer. The product, however, should not be released with so many major bugs that render it almost useless. If you can't get a feature Exchange has to work properly, don't offer it until you can. The release of 6.1.0 was a disaster. It seems more time was spent adding new features than fixing existing problems. As a result, we had months of problems, many of which were present in 6.0.x versions, that only reverting to 6.0.10 would fix.

Quote:


Please look foward to KMS/KOC 6.1.1 - which I will say is at least "soon" - to be a significant improvement.


We've been promised this before. Every significant improvement so far has meant days, if not weeks of testing, and a new laundry list of bugs and problems.


Scott
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Kire

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Scott,

I agree with everything you say. But the problem in my opinion is their marketing and sales guys that just demand new features instead of bug-fixing. I'm a software engineer and I know how it works (and I'm just glad I can persuade my sales department).

It's not the programmers/testers that cause this situation, it's the ignorant attitude of their sales/support people.

You don't see other people from Kerio here on this forum except programmers/testers and that's the main problem: They don't care about existing customers (why should they, we already paid) but only about new customers. And that will prove a bad strategy in the end. You'd better keep your existing customers happy!

We've had nothing but troubles with version 6.0.x, our local Kerio dealer just told us we had to buy 6.1 (support ended just before the release of 6.1) that should fix all our problems. I'm so glad I didn't buy the upgrade.... and switching over to another product now. Sadly, 'cause I still like the KMS-idea's!

If they only had showed some concerns of the early customers of KMS 6 and their problems. How can you expect us to pay for an update if we've been suffering for more than a year....

[Updated on: Wed, 19 October 2005 16:06]

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peterj

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The thing is that Kerio know that people are reluctant to change and as you say once you bought it you're probably stuck with it for a while.

I suspect that's why it pays for them to go for new custom and rely on existing users handing over the subscription renewal payments every year.

I would say though that I am pleased by the statements that KOC will become a focus and that 6.1.1 will be out 'soon'. However trust needs to be rebuilt by delivery of a much improved 6.1.1 KOC.

Last Chance...!
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sedell

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I'm running into a similar situation here. We have already renewed because there wasn't time to migrate off before our subscription expired. I've now been issued a directive to start testing other products to find a replacement. What are you migrating to?

Scott
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Kire

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sedell wrote on Wed, 19 October 2005 15:16

I'm running into a similar situation here. We have already renewed because there wasn't time to migrate off before our subscription expired. I've now been issued a directive to start testing other products to find a replacement. What are you migrating to?


Exchange SBS :(

I guess peterj is right about Kerio relying on people being reluctant to change. It's just that personally I refuse to pay again for something that's been buggy for more than a year. I would've expect more credits from Kerio since we were one of the first to buy KMS 6 (I made that decision based on the beta-version of KMS 6, and even that version seems more solid than the actual release later).

Just a thought: since I'm still reading this forum it just proves that I'm still sad I had to make that migration. KMS is a nice product, but there seems no real need by Kerio to make it a reliable product.
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sedell

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Quote:

I made that decision based on the beta-version of KMS 6, and even that version seems more solid than the actual release later

I agree. We ended up evaluating 6.0.0 if I remember correctly. It had a few bugs, but nothing major that I remember, and it seemed to work well. To be expected from a brand new release. We got it expecting the handful of minor bugs would be fixed relatively soon by minor patches. Then all hell broke loose with the 6.0.3 release, and it just got progressively worse from there. There were more and more bugs, and many were major issues - like not being able to send mail.



Scott
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Kire

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sedell wrote on Wed, 19 October 2005 16:23

Quote:

I made that decision based on the beta-version of KMS 6, and even that version seems more solid than the actual release later

I agree. We ended up evaluating 6.0.0 if I remember correctly. It had a few bugs, but nothing major that I remember, and it seemed to work well. To be expected from a brand new release. We got it expecting the handful of minor bugs would be fixed relatively soon by minor patches. Then all hell broke loose with the 6.0.3 release, and it just got progressively worse from there. There were more and more bugs, and many were major issues - like not being able to send mail.


Yep, the first thing that really annoyed me was that the beta KOC worked on WIN98 and when the official release came suddenly support for WIN98 was removed. It was a pity I didn't make any screenshots of the requirements of KMS beta on the Kerio-site, because I would swear that Windows 98 was on the list of supported OS's for the beta KOC. And as a programmer I still don't get why they didn't support KOC for WIN 98: KOC, an application talking on one end with Outlook and on the other end talking with KMS, why the hack does it need special functions of the OS?
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